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Berry Gordy and MJ, does he regret it?

DuranDuran said:
But like you said Smokey was VP (and staff writer and producer). His albums were never really big sellers like Stevie's, Marvin's, or later on Lionel Richie's. He was mostly a singles artist and most of his albums are out of print in the US except for compilations, the Quiet Storm album (and and they've never even bothered to remaster it).
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You're right about that. Smokey's productions and his '60s tenure with the Miracles actually sold better than his solo records.
 
I dont think he does really Berry Gordy probably knew that the Jacksons had potential but maybe he knew he couldnt do any more with them. They had grown up and weren't kids anymore. He groomed Michael for stardom and I think Michael admores him alot for that. Also remember Michael seen him as his father cause his real dad was never around.
 
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Plus Berry was too busy trying to build Motown Records into an entertainment franchise with movies, TV specials and the like. That's why he and Suzanne de Passe were always at cahoots with each other while the other Motown artists who signed after the company moved from Detroit to Los Angeles - the Jacksons included - had to fend for themselves.
 
troubleman84 said:
Plus Berry was too busy trying to build Motown Records into an entertainment franchise with movies, TV specials and the like. That's why he and Suzanne de Passe were always at cahoots with each other while the other Motown artists who signed after the company moved from Detroit to Los Angeles - the Jacksons included - had to fend for themselves.
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Do you think he lost interest in music after he moved to Hollywood, as some have claimed? Was it also true that the |jacksons saved the motown fortune by being so successful?
 
Datsymay said:
Do you think he lost interest in music after he moved to Hollywood, as some have claimed? Was it also true that the |jacksons saved the motown fortune by being so successful?
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Berry in his own mind figure he had done all he could to make sure artists became successful. Once you reached the plateau Berry reached in Motown, it's hard to believe you can come up with the same magic. Whether he had not moved away from Detroit or not, Motown was probably going to have problems anyway, but I think with the move to Los Angeles, it could be seen as some sort of disaster for Berry. So in a sense, I'll not only say it was the Jacksons but Rick James, the Commodores, the DeBarge family and Boyz II Men that kept Motown at least going for a little longer until sales of Motown Records dropped. Erykah Badu is one of the only reasons the label has a chance for a future if they play their cards right about now. If it hadn't been for the aforementioned artists, Berry would've had the power to cease Motown altogether especially after Marvin, Diana and Smokey left but he still had Stevie Wonder, Smokey and the Temptations so he's allowed the label to keep going. Now only Stevie is there from the old days to let people be reminded that some legacy is still intact there.
 
troubleman84 said:
Yeah but his real father DID get him out of there because I think Joe realized his son's potential more than Berry did.
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good point.. I think Berry's issue was with Joe.. and not the boys.. they were that.. boys.. at that time.. and Joe ran the show .. not them at that point..

Joe was the one that alot of folks at Motown couldn't deal with...
 
Well you basically hit the nail in the coffin. Berry was always against those who didn't like the way he handled things. Joe joined a LONG list: Florence Ballard, Kim Weston, Mary Wells, Marvin Gaye, Eddie Kendricks, David Ruffin, Mary Wilson (after the Supremes' sales tanked in the mid-'70s due to less promotion), and others.

Etterlene DeBarge still blames Berry for telling El DeBarge he would be a solo superstar a'la Michael.
 
with all this talk about Motown past.. is getting me thinking U know Motown TODAY has some great artists and the mainstream media ignores it..

Simply because it aint about sex, drugs, shakin' there @$$es..

Man I wish they could get some great promotion..
 
KOPV said:
with all this talk about Motown past.. is getting me thinking U know Motown TODAY has some great artists and the mainstream media ignores it..

Simply because it aint about sex, drugs, shakin' there @$$es..

Man I wish they could get some great promotion..
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Yeah that is sad.
 
KOPV said:
with all this talk about Motown past.. is getting me thinking U know Motown TODAY has some great artists and the mainstream media ignores it..

Simply because it aint about sex, drugs, shakin' there @$$es..

Man I wish they could get some great promotion..
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even if you discount the Universal Republic merger, i don't think the mainstream ignores Motown Record's current roaster which includes Erykah Badu, India.Arie and Mya (even though she'll be leaving soon) and of course Stevie's still on there too. aside from those and only a few who aren't getting deserved recognition (Q-Tip, Marley bros) they've really not got that great a base for unique talent nowadays. Lindsay Lohan and Nick Cannon need to get off the label for one thing..

Motown could have really done something big with the amazing hip-hop soul and nu-soul talent of Detroit since the mid 90s. J Dilla defined a whole new generation with a new Detroit sound that is still brewing and i see no moves from Motown to invest in them.
 
arXter said:
even if you discount the Universal Republic merger, i don't think the mainstream ignores Motown Record's current roaster which includes Erykah Badu, India.Arie and Mya (even though she'll be leaving soon) and of course Stevie's still on there too. aside from those and only a few who aren't getting deserved recognition (Q-Tip, Marley bros) they've really not got that great a base for unique talent nowadays. Lindsay Lohan and Nick Cannon need to get off the label for one thing..

Motown could have really done something big with the amazing hip-hop soul and nu-soul talent of Detroit since the mid 90s. J Dilla defined a whole new generation with a new Detroit sound that is still brewing and i see no moves from Motown to invest in them.
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Exactly! People like Slum Village should've been signed to Motown already, them and Dwele but I guess "no interest..." they were poor in promoting Donnie too, he's the guy who was Marvin's second cousin and sounded like Stevie/Donny Hathaway.
 
you know i've never heard of Donnie - going to check him out. but Dwele is the most underrated cat out there..

the only kudos i'll give them is for signing Badu and Arie in this day and age and giving them complete creative control along with the money for promotion but they missed out on a goldmine of an opportunity (and they were sitting right over it) when the Dilla/nu-soul bloom was happening - only small labels like BBE and Stones Throw (and a stint at MCA that was full of BS on their behalf) gave him and his hometown contemporaries an opportunity.

..missed out big time. even though it's not too late, i don't see them taking advantage now (Motown's like one ignorant granddaddy to them) and the future looks bleak for the legendary label.
 
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Motown hasn't really been relevant since Lionel Richie, especially after Gordy sold it. The only thing they have is the back catalog. They just put endless compilations of the same songs, but each year they change the album cover and call it a "new" album, lol.
 
troubleman84 said:
Berry in his own mind figure he had done all he could to make sure artists became successful.
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Not really. If you think about it during Motown's most popular period in the 1960s, out of over a hundred acts, only 4 or 5 were really pushed and 90% of the attention went to promoting Miss Ross, which most of the other performers didn't like.
 
DuranDuran said:
Not really. If you think about it during Motown's most popular period in the 1960s, out of over a hundred acts, only 4 or 5 were really pushed and 90% of the attention went to promoting Miss Ross, which most of the other performers didn't like.
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Berry was having an affair with Miss ross/ one of the worse choice he made was to let her star in the wiz. he should have given that role to Stephney mills.
 
my first time seeing this thread. i don't think Berry Gordy could have ever seen what Michael had coming. I don't think Michael's confidence was ever rocked. i do think Gordy regrets it a little. i think there could only be one Marvin Gaye. People who tend to think that somebody could be the next somebody else, cannot see the forest for the trees.
 
Datsymay said:
Berry was having an affair with Miss ross/ one of the worse choice he made was to let her star in the wiz. he should have given that role to Stephney mills.
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I don't think Diana was terrible in 'The Wiz.' Chances are Michael might not have done the picture if she wasn't in it. I'd really like to see some footage of Stephanie Mills (probably not possible since it was a play) and know more about her performance.

troubleman84 said:
Well you basically hit the nail in the coffin. Berry was always against those who didn't like the way he handled things. Joe joined a LONG list: Florence Ballard, Kim Weston, Mary Wells, Marvin Gaye, Eddie Kendricks, David Ruffin, Mary Wilson (after the Supremes' sales tanked in the mid-'70s due to less promotion), and others.

Etterlene DeBarge still blames Berry for telling El DeBarge he would be a solo superstar a'la Michael.
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Yes, even Babyface said El was like Michael. But there were other things in the mix with DeBarge. TV One did a documentary showing that at the time El was the most responsible. The other siblings were getting into drugs and missing rehearsals. Bunny says they became upset when they saw the 'Rhythm of the Night' album cover and the siblings were shown in small photos and El in one much bigger.

troubleman84 said:
When Michael was as young as sixteen, he was openly complaining to Berry about wanting more control of his work and he knew why Berry favored Jermaine - hell, the guy was dating his daughter for chrissakes. He also tried to push Stephanie Mills as the next Diana but she didn't like the way he promoted her so SHE left and had monumental success. She even beat Diana in the 1981 Grammys winning one for "Never Knew Love Like This Before". IMHO, the Jackson 4 (Jackie, Tito, Marlon and Michael) left Motown at the right time - the label was falling apart. It took the funk of Rick James to bring it back from the dead.
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Interesting. On Motown 25, DeBarge and High Inergy were introduced as the future of Motown. I'd guess them along with Rick James were supposed to be the jumper cables for Motown. Rick is pretty clear about how Motown isn't a family and wasn't a great place to be in post-Motown interviews. But it doesn't seem like he had creative control issues...I could be wrong.
 
MJJ:G.O.A.T said:
Interesting. On Motown 25, DeBarge and High Inergy were introduced as the future of Motown. I'd guess them along with Rick James were supposed to be the jumper cables for Motown.
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High Inergy made about 9 or 10 albums, but none of them really did anything. They had a minor hit around 1978 called "You Can't Turn Me Off". I have that debut album. It's pretty good. Today they would have been dropped after the 1st album didn't hit.
 
When I was younger I thought the Wiz was the best movie in the world. The singing was great, the music was great and it was visually pleasing. We used to watch it over and over. My mom even let us stay up late when it came on TV. We didn't even know until we got older that MJ was the scarecrow:hysterical:

Anyway, back on topic, I think maybe gordy regrets it a little.
 
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ginvid said:
When I was younger I thought the Wiz was the best movie in the world. The singing was great, the music was great and it was visually pleasing. We used to watch it over and pver. My mom even let us stay up late when it came on TV. We didn't even know until we got older that MJ was the scarecrow:hysterical:

Anyway, back on topic, I think maybe gordy regrets it a little.
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:wild:
 
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