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Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

Sarah.lovess.MJ said:
I cant answer your question but yes that was strange to me, dont they usually ask one of the family to indentify?
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IF they have no family, they look for Picture Id and If no Picture Id and nobody is present to identify the person, they label the person as John Doe if they are unable to identify themselves.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
It just seems odd to me that they would be doing CPR for 40mins on MJ while wearing a hospital gown and for someone to ask for identification (not that they wouldnt know who he was).
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That's apart of the procedures of Emts, they have to identify the patient they are working on, if the patient can't identify themselves and no family, then they label the Patient as John Doe until a family member can identify them at the hospital.
 
Im clueless when it comes to things like this (thank god actually!) but when someone is embalmed, that wouldnt affect MJ's real hair would it because it was mentioned that a sample of hair was taken when MJ was at Forest Lawn in August.

The Death Certificate states embalming took place on 7/7/09 which is the same day as the memorial. I have a hard time believing it took place on that date due to the private viewing the night before and the private service in the morning and the memorial in the morning. When did they have time to embalm him?
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
Im clueless when it comes to things like this (thank god actually!) but when someone is embalmed, that wouldnt affect MJ's real hair would it because it was mentioned that a sample of hair was taken when MJ was at Forest Lawn in August.

The Death Certificate states embalming took place on 7/7/09 which is the same day as the memorial. I have a hard time believing it took place on that date due to the private viewing the night before and the private service in the morning and the memorial in the morning. When did they have time to embalm him?
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Hair that is already grown does not change. Embalming doesn't take a really long time and most places send the bodies out due to health codes. (I don't know if Forest Lawn does it there or not)
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
It just seems odd to me that they would be doing CPR for 40mins on MJ while wearing a hospital gown and for someone to ask for identification (not that they wouldnt know who he was). They should be more worried about his well being (which they probably knew by then) than his ID.

That would mean that someone went through MJs stuff looking for his ID. Wonder who that was? Probably means nothing.
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A hospital has many people working. It is the job of the admissions people to get this information the second they roll in the door. There are legal issues involved such as who is next of kin, is this patient a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate), what is their religion (Can they receive blood...who can sign for it), what are their allergies (so they don't give a drug the person is allergic to), what is their insurance carrier?, etc. This is all done by administrative people and not those doing the actual lifesaving.

A hospital has standards of care and these things are all done by all hospitals. It is also a business and run as such. Their are legal issues which they face daily and this is why they are so diligent about this type of information.
 
He didn't even have an IV Dosing pump which is just unheard of.
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so it wasnt dripped in? he injected the full amount info mj straight off
 
elusive moonwalker said:
so it wasnt dripped in? he injected the full amount info mj straight off
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No, it did not say that. It was not on an infusion pump. A pump delivers a specific dose. I'll explain the difference.

You hold in your hand a vial of drug. That vial states maybe 50mg per ml. So you know that in order to deliver 50mg you need 1 ml in the syringe. If you are making an infusion you need to mix that drug with another fluid to make a whole bag of infusion and thats one way to make a mistake. Some drugs are not so straight forward or easy like that.

But ok...you put a certain amount of propofol into a larger bag mixed with other fluid to reach the concentration you need and set a 'drip' rate, meaning how much of the drug you want to go per minute. A pump sets that rate so it goes in steady and at a SET RATE. You can do this without a pump but it is more risky.

You can set the drip rate but if the patient moves, the rate can go faster or stop completely depending on where the IV is put in. Many people get the IV put in the inside bend of the elbow. If you bend your elbow, it stops because the IV catheter is bent inside. Understand? If you straighten their arm it starts flowing again but it can go too fast too. You have to be watching constantly.

There are certain drugs in the hospital that MUST be on a pump according to policy because you can overdose someone and kill them quickly.

This is what I understand may have happened here, but again, I need to read more about what was found at the scene. Yesterday I was overloaded with information and got a huge headache so I will read everything over again to see if I understand it more clearly today or have missed something.
 
kathiejmie said:
I've read. I feel like I am back in June 25.

Michael should still be with us enjoying his life. WHY did it happen to him OF ALL PEOPLE. I am just broken. Why did it have to happen? I want Murray rot in hell.

But it won't bring our Michael back.

After reading all the info about propofol in the report I can't understand how they could charge him with involuntary manslaughter? How is it involuntary?? He knew the risks and he ignored them and still went for it. I just don't understand this.
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Agree....so sad:boohoo:
 
I swear to God if this will go trial defense is going to call some J Fam members and firstly Oxman as witnesses. Mark my words this will happen. IF it goes that far.
 
ok i get u thanks. so it was on drip but not a pump that would control the amount being given.and was the diprivan mixed with a soloution or just in the bag on its own
 
Gosh just read the full 51 pages reports in original pdf format!
The autopsy clearly proved that Dr. Murray is guilty, many times. However it's so unnesasary to "investigate" some of the body parts. It's more like experimenting him as an specimen for medical students teaching purposes.
And after all of these dissections and cuttings of the organs, brain..etc, the autopsy do not serve its purposes that someone is resposible for his death and that person should be arrested but it's more like an report for the Entertainment news.
Disgusting.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
ok i get u thanks. so it was on drip but not a pump that would control the amount being given.and was the diprivan mixed with a soloution or just in the bag on its own
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Well, from what I recall there was infusion equipment found but no monitoring device.

I can tell you that it is normally added to a larger bag and infused at a certain rate but again, I will reread everything again and if I come up with something different I'll let you know.
 
just when you think it's over, something like this brings it all back
and Murray will only get a maximum of 4 years? 4 years???
oh Michael...I miss him...today I woke up thinking about him yes they were playing his song in the radio...uurgh I don't feel well
 
RainbowAngel said:
Gosh just read the full 51 pages reports in original pdf format!
The autopsy clearly proved that Dr. Murray is guilty, many times. However it's so unnesasary to "investigate" some of the body parts. It's more like experimenting him as an specimen for medical students teaching purposes.
And after all of these dissections and cuttings of the organs, brain..etc, the autopsy do not serve its purposes that someone is resposible for his death and that person should be arrested but it's more like an report for the Entertainment news.
Disgusting.
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This is done as a standard autopsy on anyone who gets one. I agree though, the science of it makes it seem rather cold, but thats science. Cold hard facts.
 
RainbowAngel said:
Gosh just read the full 51 pages reports in original pdf format!
The autopsy clearly proved that Dr. Murray is guilty, many times. However it's so unnesasary to "investigate" some of the body parts. It's more like experimenting him as an specimen for medical students teaching purposes.
And after all of these dissections and cuttings of the organs, brain..etc, the autopsy do not serve its purposes that someone is resposible for his death and that person should be arrested but it's more like an report for the Entertainment news.
Disgusting.
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All autopsies are like this, no exception. They check everything to make sure that all possible causes of death are explored. If they miss anything and Murray's defense finds it, it could destroy the entire case against him because it would show the DA did not do its job.

If no physical cause of death is found, that is when they do a tox. For example, if Michael suffered a seizure that cause his heart to stop, and it was caused by an overdose of drugs, they have to note that. Which mean they would have to dissect his brain and have a tox as well.

It is melancholically and seems over the top, but this is done everyday when people die unexpectedly.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
Thank you. I think its the first time we've agreed on something.
Edit: 2nd time! lol

Odd that one member claims to be a nurse and doesnt know this and those of us who arent in the field do know this.
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I'm not even in medical field and I know it.
It's common knowledge propofol should never have been used as a sleep aid.
 
I'm devastated after reading it, I feel like in a slow motion picture, back to the June 25th over and over again. I just can't get those graphic sketch out of my head, all those medical words are just blowing my mind.
I don't even know how is is possible tmz obtained this record? is it legal that they published it?
And did the judge read it? If so, he wouldn't agree let Murray free? And if convicted he'd get 4 years?! Sorry America, I won't get your justice system...
I miss Michael so much... ;(
 
RainbowAngel said:
Beachlover

Hey, I really admire the way to patiently answer all those medical questions! You seems to be very knowledgeble.
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No problem. I am in the medical field and am happy to help people understand things better so they know what is really being said. It can be very confusing and I have seen even CNN not report things accurately at times.
 
Asedora said:
Guys, I really DO NOT feel that I am reading HIS autopsy. I mean, I understand that I am reading his autopsy but it feels like I am reading just a medical document and it is nothing to do with Michael. I do not know why I cannot apply this autopsy to him in my head.. Maybe later I will realize that it his. At the same time I feel sick. None of it feels real to me.
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I read it exactly the same way, as a MEDICAL DOCUMENT. I don't think I would be able to read it if I was thinking about Michael at the same time. That's why the mention of brown eyes was so difficult to read, cause it was hunting me throught the whole report, bringing Mike back to my mind. I just wanted to BLOCK THE EMOTION OFF and read it all as a document, to UNDERSTAND. It also felt like a huge invasion of privacy, I agree. I didn't manage to read parts about internal organs, I stopped there, however, I will try to come back and reread.

Beachlover said:
No. Unfortunatly. Just no.
The Conspiracy Theorists and the Hoax people will still believe whatever they believe for whatever reason they need to believe it.
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I think you're right, unfortunately.

PrincessMichaela said:
Not to mention, I feel really guilty and disrespectful as that was a major invasion of privacy. I can't believe it's just out there like that for all to see - to dissect him as if he was some sort of project or experiment, just a body, not a person...:no: That was way too much. Way too much. I just want some sleep now.
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... feeling you there :hug:

wendy2004 said:
550 comes from page 17.

(...)
(Note: This may be a bit graphic for some and it's kinda graphic for me to even type.)
Hair samples were taken but I didn't see any results of the toxicology analysis. Anyone else see this? Did I miss another part somewhere? Please post a link if I have. eek! It's on the very last page (51) and the last thing the coroner's office collected, almost like a last minute afterthought...in August...AT Forest Lawn. :mello: Hair samples are important for the sole purpose of determining how long someone has been taking certain drugs in their body. I'm not sure how much a 1 and-a-half inch strand of hair can yield (meaning how many weeks back that would show) becuz the longer the hair, the further back the analysis can go in time, I believe.

*editing for clarity...not explained right* See post 253.
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wendy2004 said:
Second point. The 2 Urines. This seems very interesting to me for 2 reasons. Propofol, lidocaine and benzos were found in BOTH samples. Now think about this for a second or two. Urine production STOPS or declines after death, yet Michael had more urine in his bladder waiting to be excreted (550 ml)....just a little more than what was found in the bottle (450 ml). His bladder was distended...which sorta means it was kinda "full" and time for him to possibly "go" again.

Now, if BOTH samples contain propofol and benzos, could Michael have had that much liquid in him to produce BOTH propofol and benzo laced urines in such a small amount of time? To me, it suggests Murray was giving Michael propofol earlier/longer than he claimed?

What do you think? Do you think it's possible that Michael could have been able to produce the sample in the bottle AND what was STILL in his bladder between 10:40 til when the paramedics got there and he appeared to have lost signs of life? Remember if Murray, per his version of things, put Michael out at 10:40. Michael couldn't have produced enuf urine to "go" twice in that amount of time, could he? In less than 2 hours? I know they found lots of empty orange juice bottles on the nightstand so MAYBE he was drinking a lot to hydrate himself. But if he didn't receive propofol til 10:40am he could have gone to the bathroom on his own (all night and into the morning) and empty his bladder. He'd only need the catheter thingy for when he was going to be put out for long periods of time and unable to go on his own, right? :unsure:

If any of you have ever been catheterized can remember how often you "went" (this is one time where TMI might be helpful) or if you had any control over how often you "went"...or if it just happened randomly without any control from you, this might be helpful.
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Thanks for bringing those questions up. I don't have answers but I will have my close friend medical doctor read the report and read all of our possible medical questions cause I really want a professional input. The more input from more people we get, the better will be the understanding.

Laura_Jo said:
I'm glad it says, very clearly VITILIGO. Obviously I never doubted it. I'm just glad there's proof to show the haters. Not that there is anything remotely satisfying about any of this painful process.
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Agree 10000% so sad it's in his death... :(

Ramona122003 said:
All autopsies are like this, no exception. They check everything to make sure that all possible causes of death are explored. If they miss anything and Murray's defense finds it, it could destroy the entire case against him because it would show the DA did not do its job.
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I like what you're saying again. Even tho it seems horrible, it's important that this procedure was done in smallest detail to have as many anaswers as possible.

Beachlover said:
No problem. I am in the medical field and am happy to help people understand things better so they know what is really being said. It can be very confusing and I have seen even CNN not report things accurately at times.
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Thank you from me as well.

FunkeyJay said:
I tried to read it since yesterday, but it won't load and I can not save it on my PC. Can someone send it to me via email JenniferArp1@googlemail.com Thank you.
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I can send it to you but only really late in the night, as I have it saved on my private computer and will be home very late tonight. Now I'm at work (being online on MJJC as everyone sees...). and I can't save pdfs here. If you don't have it within the next 10 hours pm me and I will send.
 
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Limonali said:
I can send it to you but only really late in the night, as I have it saved on my private computer and will be home very late tonight. Now I'm at work (being online on MJJC as everyone sees...). and I can't save pdfs here. If you don't have it within the next 10 hours pm me and I will send.
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Thank you for the offer. I'll let you know.
 
i thought they said diprivan goes through the system real quick so how come they found it in his blood etc. we were under the impression that u could only find it in organs and thats if u were actually looking for it
 
Well, from what I recall there was infusion equipment found but no monitoring device.
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sorry im being thick here. infusion equipment is a pump? i thought it was said there was no pump connected to the drip
 
prettygirlmj said:
I am glad this report was released. Makes Murray even more guilty. Michael was in good health and I hope all these people with their conspiracy theories can now stop.
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Yes, but what is happening? Nothing! Involuntary manslaughter, that's it! Ok, the title involuntary manslaughter is right, he didn't murder Michael in my opinion but the length of the time him going to jail should be waaaaaay longer than only four little years!

I find all of these rules and the law a lil' ridiculous sometimes. I mean for example if you get charged with involuntary manslaughter you can get a max. up to four years in prison. This is bull to me! It should be handled like, when somebody is gettin' charged, they should take a look to what he's done at first and depending on what he has done they should tell how long he should go to jail. Not setting the rules at first, sayin' that when he gets charged with IM he can only get a maximum up to four years.
(Hope y'all understand me as my english isn't perfect when it comes to things like this)
 
madoff get 150 year for stealing money. it shows what the priorites are of the system
 
This is so sick!!! Why make this info public........i feel so sick & totally messed up!!!!!........why did i go & read it:no:
 
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