Michael Jackson’s Forgotten Fortune: Secret Art Collection Uncovered & Valued At $900M /Update @pg10

[myosotis]

About the sculpture of Michael? (in the photo). And other art like it that might be produced? A one-time deal might be acceptable, if for the artist's private collection. But, there seems to be a disconnect going on about who can market Michael-related products? Michael's "likeness and image" are OWNED by the estate, for purposes of marketing. The Jacksons, and some others, don't seem to really grasp this concept? I'm sure the Estate will have to spend a lot of time, just putting out fires/suing people! I doubt that Brett has the RIGHT to reproduce and sell more of those sculptures, if that is his intention? (It might be).

The question is, DID Michael or did he not give Brett an art collection worth many millions of dollars? I really don't THINK SO. I can see him giving him one drawing/painting, or even ten, but the whole collection? Impossible! So it all hinges on that letter/document? The one that Tohme refuses to authenticate. Wow, this is ugly!

I don't know whether BLS might have reproductions of the smaller MJ statue in mind...he didn't seem to create any repros of the 'John Lennon' statue... and the lifesize original JL was very hard to sell for the asking price. ...in fact I think it may still be unsold and languishing in a vault somewhere.


I do find it heavily ironic that after having to sell the originals and the reproduction rights to his own art work (as loan collateral for the failed City of Angels project), BLS may now acquire the originals and reproduction rights for Michael's artwork via Tohme's letter...it definitely doesn't seem right. If he does acquire the rights through this letter, it may only be a matter of time before he has to sell them on again, as he seems to be as full of grandiose and expensive projects as Joe.....like this story about a US presidency monument which Michael may (or may not) have had some involvement with....
http://www.tjclassof1965.com/News/2... Post.jpg on the U.S. Presidency Monument.pdf


Edit: It is interesting that the date of the MJ copyright registration (25/06/10) by BLS is the day after this press release for the sale of the BLS artworks by his 'buyout' buyer (24/06/10)
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2010/06/prweb4176264.htm

 

[Autumn II]

It would appear to me that it boils down to that letter. The one Thome does not want to confirm

Thanks to Ivy, for keeping after this!

Yes, it all seems to boil down to that "Tohme letter." Also, note the "registration date" of 2010. Fascinating. . . .

Whether or not there was an "alliance," or if it was another scam, is unknown at this time. My hunch is, SCAM. That Michael would give an art collection worth many millions of dollars, to an artist, seems IMPOSSIBLE. I certainly can see him giving Brett a few drawings/paintings, but not the ENTIRE collection. This has "Tohme and the auction," written all over it! (In the lawsuit about the auction, Michael said he was being ROBBED! He actually used that language.) And what ABOUT that five million dollars Tohme was "holding" for Michael. That made NO logical sense. Or, he TOOK it, from his house and only returned it when he thought an audit would discover the loss? This would be a matter for the police, now, if that letter is fraudulent? There is a HUGE amount of potential profit involved!

 

[Resa]

What in the world is going on here?

Can the Estate reclaim the stolen art? I would hate for these to be separated and sold, when they should be preserved for a museum. Shame on whoever is involved in this, family included.

Geez, Jermaine had a baby on twitter did he? Hmm... I wonder why... and he wasn't this vocal defending his brother over the Aaron Carter rumors. He wouldn't get this defensive, unless it involved him. Makes you really wonder init?

he's def in there somehow

I don't pay his tweets any attention but his tweets last night caught my eye. Jermaine the business of Michael Jackson has nothing to do with you he never comments on business deals but this one he is vocal about. I am telling you somewhere along the lines he was promised a cut. ESP if this stuff was at Mrs Jackson house before it found it's way to wherever it is now. IMO they tried to pull a fast one and all of them got caught

My thoughts exactly.

 

[MoeJack]

Wow, this is so awesome. I really hope they are able to put these in a museum one day. I want to see pictures!!!

 

[Lynn88]

Speaking for myself, until Jermaine Jackson is able to clarify his relationship with "Dr." Thome-Thome, I will continue to be suspicious of their association. Past association and "possibly" present association.

"Dr." Thome-Thome came out of nowhere, in my opinion. Where did he come from? What else has Thome-Thome been a part of that nobody knows about - YET, and what part did Jermaine play and "MAY" continue to play?


No offense, but Jermaine has a lot of explaining to do. And I ain't talking about answering questions on Twitter.

I really don't think Jermaine has a relationship with Thome anymore. When Halima and Jermaine addressed the rumor of her being related to Thome on twitter, Halima made the comment that Thome was not a good person. Hence Jermaine's statement about Thome dismantling Neverland. So to me, it seems like that in the time since Michael's death he has seen Thome for the man he really is. Just my opinion. I can't speak to his past relationship with him.

 

[missred07]

WOW! What a mess. There's always more news coming out everyday.
The Aaron Carter Fiasco hasn't finished yet here comes Thome, Howard Mann again.
When I saw all these names, I knew things are skeptical.

 

[Memefan]

If MJ gave him the pieces in 2008...why did it take 2 years for him to register them? I am willing to bet, Tohme wrote that letter after MJ passed and backdated it to 2008 to make it more believable...Unlike Stupid Oxman.

Registration Number / Date: VAu001031864 / 2010-06-25

First anniversary of MJ's death. SMDH

 

[Sophielo]

How messy is this going to get?

 

[ivy]

If the buyer didnt needed any reproduction rights, he (the buyer) could have done whatever he wanted to do with it (assuming MJ actually gave Brett his paintings) right? He could also have sold it/auctioned it away (like the Juliens auction)? To my understanding, as long as they (the final buyer/owner) dont reproduce then its fine- If they reproduce its a question of copyright issues and thats why the Estate is in this. Is that correct?

physical property and copyright or intellectual property is two different things. for example michael could have recorded a song and give that to you as a gift - you would be the owner of the physical copy but michael would still have his copyright (unless he gifted that too) and intellectual property.

let's be honest here. who would buy 182 pieces if they didn't want to profit from it somehow. it's not like this was an acution and 182 different people got 1 painting for their personal collections. report says 1 bidder. look to howard mann every picture he had turned to a book , poster , calendar. so it's highly probably that the buyers were after this to sell it as a book , poster, print etc.

it seems like this buyer is smart and learned from the lawsuits (such as the estate going after the belt, joe's perfume, htwf and mann) and wanted to make sure that the estate won't come after him/ her and said i want a release from estate before i pay. when that was asked to the estate , they got aware of the situation.

But did he have to? I mean, IF we assume MJ actually gave away his art to Brett and its proven the letter is real, then he didnt needed to report to the Estate i believe. Its the same scenarios as all those items being sold to Juliens. MJ giften them away and I dont think everyone of them needed to tell the Estate they had those items.

if he owned them he didn't have to tell them to the estate. if they were in his safe - keeping he should have notified them of the existence of the items.

Can the Estate reclaim the stolen art? I would hate for these to be separated and sold, when they should be preserved for a museum. Shame on whoever is involved in this, family included.

we don't know the conditions but depending on the tohme letters authenticity and tohme's powers they might or might not be able to get back the physical items.

I wonder why... and he wasn't this vocal defending his brother over the Aaron Carter rumors. He wouldn't get this defensive, unless it involved him. Makes you really wonder init?

just guessing but carter story had no money involved in it.

About the sculpture of Michael? (in the photo). And other art like it that might be produced? A one-time deal might be acceptable, if for the artist's private collection.

they can make michael statue and put to places. that's art. there's nothing that stops people from painting pictures of michael or making statues of him as long as it falls under "art".

The question is, DID Michael or did he not give Brett an art collection worth many millions of dollars? I really don't THINK SO. I can see him giving him one drawing/painting, or even ten, but the whole collection? Impossible! So it all hinges on that letter/document? The one that Tohme refuses to authenticate. Wow, this is ugly!

the documents show that he took up to 10 to himself and left 182 to strong as a "small token of appreciation". so i don't think so. the last part of tohme's letter to me sounds like he let livingstone-strong to showcase the 182 at museums and galleries. i don't think he meant to give up his copyright or intellectual rights. i think he simply wanted to say it's okay to display those.

 

[rainny]

If MJ gave him the pieces in 2008...why did it take 2 years for him to register them?

...Because he didn't.

 

[kasume]

THOME NEED TO BE LOCKED UP!!! Along with his other fellow SLYTHERINS.

"....he Threatened death and destruction upon Michael...."

He already crossed the line with that statement!!! How deep into the mud can that snake get??!!

Sophielo, it'll be MESSY as long as the SLIMY SNAKES remain!

 

[myosotis]

Oh dear, I know this is off -topic too...but why did Debbie Rowe nominate BLS for a knighthood? I can see that as far as the article says,it relates to charitable work, but......????????
This report seems to date from October 09. ....the historic origin of these orders seems to be to fight Islam??????

http://www.smh.com.au/national/the-diary/a-big-week-for-liza-minnelli-20091011-gse9.html


Strong, a Newcastle-born former Sydney Grammar student and great-great-grandson of the explorer David Livingstone, lives in Los Angeles. He formed a business partnership with the singer in 1989 that was called Jackson Strong Alliance. It carried out charitable works for children around the world.

In recognition of his work a Belgium nobleman, His Grace Michael Shmickrath the Duke of Gardham, made Strong a knight of the Imperial Orders of Constantine the Great and Saint Helen yesterday. The world's oldest chivalric order of knighthood, the investiture was open to the public for the first time since Constantine's victory at Chryssopolis in 324 AD, and was held on a faded symbol of British majesty, the cruise ship Queen Mary, which is permanently docked in Long Beach, California.

Strong's Sydney publicist, Joyce Lewis, said Jackson's former wife, Debbie Rowe, had nominated the Australian for the knighthood.

 

[marebear]

I hope the estate gets them back. Is there anything of Michael's that isn't for sale? All I see is people selling things he may or may not have given them. Nobody appreciates it and wants the money from it. Like nothing is sacred or appreciated. This is something his kids could show their kids someday. I hope I am making sense here. If Michael gave me something big or small I wouldn't trade or sell it for the world.

 

[mjjesamor]

These items should be for his children. I find it totally ridiculous and unbelievable that MJ would 'gift' the entire collection of 182 items and only keep 10 for himself and his kids. I could believe it was the other way around.... 10 items 'gifted'. I hope the estate fights hard on this

 

[Ashtanga]

The one Thome does not want to confirm

Thome does not want to say if that letter is real or not. I am going to wait and see what happens

Honestly? I really hope he does not say anything about it. I doubt it. He will continue hiding. Unless the Estate go to upon Tohme.

Speaking for myself, until Jermaine Jackson is able to clarify his relationship with "Dr." Thome-Thome, I will continue to be suspicious of their association. Past association and "possibly" present association.

"Dr." Thome-Thome came out of nowhere, in my opinion. Where did he come from? What else has Thome-Thome been a part of that nobody knows about - YET, and what part did Jermaine play and "MAY" continue to play?

No offense, but Jermaine has a lot of explaining to do. And I ain't talking about answering questions on Twitter.

:clapping:


I hope anxiously for that day in that Jermaine will explain it to us. :timer: But sadly I doubt he'll do it. Tohme was the stone in the shoe of Michael and I can not ignore it:

[youtube]KMmPeb_jWaI[/youtube]

 

[CherubimII]

TOHME NEED TO BE LOCKED UP!!! Along with his other fellow SLYTHERINS.

"....he Threatened death and destruction upon Michael...."

He already crossed the line with that statement!!! How deep into the mud can that snake get??!!

Sophielo, it'll be MESSY as long as the SLIMY SNAKES remain!

Extremely WELL SAID. I agree 100% with you.
Thank you. :agree:

Tohme is an extremely suspicious person.
I have him on my list as a suspect in the
murder of Michael Jackson.

 

[ivy]

As you know i tried to confirm this story by both reaching out to MJ estate and Brett Livingstone-Stong. I asked them if the story is true and if they wanted to comment

I couldn't get a comment from MJ estate but Brett Livingstone-Strong just responded to my email. This is what he said

"Hi Ivy, that story is not correct ,
Mrs J , MJJ Estate and I are working together. Any sale would only be if the art collection stays together for exhibition as M hoped for. Funds would help build his major monument we are currently working on. Mrs J and I showed LA Mayor A.V the architectural model of Michael's monument on Tuesday to request his help for a suitable site. "

note: "LA major A.V" is Antonio Villaraigosa

 

[ivy]

my opinion

i'm still confused as to why the drawings need to be sold for any exhibition and to create funds for monument. what's stopping them from putting the drawings on an exhibition themselves and charge a entrance fee and use the money for the monument

i wish the estate had commented and we knew more.

 

[Bridgett_361]

As you know i tried to confirm this story by both reaching out to MJ estate and Brett Livingstone-Stong. I asked them if the story is true and if they wanted to comment

I couldn't get a comment from MJ estate but Brett Livingstone-Strong just responded to my email. This is what he said

"Hi Ivy, that story is not correct ,

Mrs J , MJJ Estate and I are working together. Any sale would only be if the art collection stays together for exhibition as M
hoped for. Funds would help build his major monument we are currently working on. Mrs J and I showed LA Mayor A.V the
architectural model of Michael's monument on Tuesday to request his help for a suitable site. "
note: "LA major A.V" is Antonio Villaraigosa

Working with mrs Jackson??? why do this give me the chills mrs jackson can't do business for MJ estate, what are they getting KAt all tangle up in again.

 

[Bridgett_361]

my opinion

i'm still confused as to why the drawings need to be sold for any exhibition and to create funds for monument. what's stopping them from putting the drawings on an exhibition themselves and charge a entrance fee and use the money for the monument

i wish the estate had commented and we knew more.

Here is the whip ivy beat me because this is stink and I smell across the the Caribbean seas.

 

[Autumn II]

my opinion

i'm still confused as to why the drawings need to be sold for any exhibition and to create funds for monument. what's stopping them from putting the drawings on an exhibition themselves and charge a entrance fee and use the money for the monument

i wish the estate had commented and we knew more.

Thanks, Ivy. Right. This is STILL confusing. Mrs. Jackson, or any Jackson, has no authority to broker ANY deals like that, and it's not clear what Katherine has to do with it, or SHOULD have to do with it? She still seems to fail to understand that she didn't inherit property, or anything not stated in the will. If the point is an exhibition, I don't think there is anything stopping the ESTATE from doing just what you suggested -- putting on the exhibition and charging an entrance fee, for an eventual monument. IF that is what they choose to do. The drawings surely don't have to be SOLD to do that. But the situation remains murky about ownership, and the sticking point is that letter that Tohme didn't "authenticate." So that raises red flags about whether Michael did, indeed, give Brett the entire collection. (I really, really doubt that.) If he did not "give" the collection, then Brett does not OWN it, cannot sell it, and must give it BACK -- not to the Jacksons, but to the estate.

 

[myosotis]

As you know i tried to confirm this story by both reaching out to MJ estate and Brett Livingstone-Stong. I asked them if the story is true and if they wanted to comment

I couldn't get a comment from MJ estate but Brett Livingstone-Strong just responded to my email. This is what he said

"Hi Ivy, that story is not correct ,
Mrs J , MJJ Estate and I are working together. Any sale would only be if the art collection stays together for exhibition as M hoped for. Funds would help build his major monument we are currently working on. Mrs J and I showed LA Mayor A.V the architectural model of Michael's monument on Tuesday to request his help for a suitable site. "

note: "LA major A.V" is Antonio Villaraigosa

Wow, potentially $900 million and this would only 'help build' a monument? So how expensive is this monument going to be?
Does anyone WANT a multi million dollar monument..? I hope the estate have a say in this. Why should the mayor of LA have a say in where it is sited...can't it be sited at forest lawn?..can't they speak to the owners? (Fans pay tribute at Forest lawn because that is where Michael is....why would they go to a monumment somewhere else?) I would have thought a few thousand dollars would cover the cost of something fairly magnificent.......or is this really a way of getting some of LBS's fancy designs off the ground...so he can showcase his work? The 'gates of paradise' have been already been touted for LA..as part of the 'angel city' development, the canopied monument and gates of paradise for Dubai....now for MJ? BLS has been trying to get some of this stuff built for years, and now it looks as though he thinks he has found his opportunity.
IMHO he is pulling Mrs J's emotional strings here. Of course she would want a magnificent monument for Michael..I hope this is not preventing her from seeing potential ulterior motives. To me this feels as if it is more for the glory of BLS than for MJ.

BLS tried to find a location for the John Lennon statue...he never did ...he also trid to find a buyer for it and I think it is unsold. It spent a a year or two in New York I think, and a while in Japan, and now I think may be in storage somewhere....The same thing happened with the Presidential monument...a peripatetic life and then no-one wanted it (they had some fancy notion of sending it on a tour round the country) and it was eventually left languishing in a municipal store. This is not an impressive history for BLS's success with monuments.

I think Michael could rightfully have quoted Sir Christopher Wren's words on this subject: 'If you want to see my monument, look around'. Michael's monument lies in his work , his words and his example ie his philanthropy. The world has his music, his films, his books...hopefully it will also soon have his artworks, (if Mr Livingstone-Strong will hand them over). These are his greatest monuments.

Edit: It seems a very odd concept to sell something that DID belong to Michael in order to pay for something that is not really his at all ie monument that would belong to the city that hosts it , and would perhaps be at the 'mercy' of city authorities to do with as they will in future years......I would have thought that in future years his family would rather have his artwork to remember him by, than a monument.

 

[rainny]

"Dr." Thome-Thome came out of nowhere, in my opinion. Where did he come from? What else has Thome-.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31740...nt/t/jacksons-mysterious-adviser-tohme-opens/
Tohme, a financier with a murky past, had been contacted by Jackson’s brother, Jermaine

 

[Vici]

As you know i tried to confirm this story by both reaching out to MJ estate and Brett Livingstone-Stong. I asked them if the story is true and if they wanted to comment

I couldn't get a comment from MJ estate but Brett Livingstone-Strong just responded to my email. This is what he said

"Hi Ivy, that story is not correct ,
Mrs J , MJJ Estate and I are working together. Any sale would only be if the art collection stays together for exhibition as M hoped for. Funds would help build his major monument we are currently working on. Mrs J and I showed LA Mayor A.V the architectural model of Michael's monument on Tuesday to request his help for a suitable site. "

note: "LA major A.V" is Antonio Villaraigosa

Katherine & Brett July 5th, 2011

The Mayor of Los Angeles, Antonio Villaraigosa, visits July 5th, 2011

 

[Ben]

I can see why they are working with KJ. Not that they HAVE to, but you know, as Michael's mother. If it allows KJ and the executors to patch things up, why not? Maybe it will keep her away from the dark side? And maybe they're talking with the mayor for a suitable location, because it would draw a considerable number of tourists to one spot of the city, and there's a lot to take into consideration, like transportation, security and so on. Just remember the number of fans at the Hollywood star, bringing gifts and flowers.
I'm not sure the people at FL would agree with a monument, they already have a lot to do with the tons of flowers and cards and gifts they get for Michael each month.

If I understand this right, they would sell the drawings, but the art would have to remain as part of the collection for an exhibition? Like the drawing is yours but you cant take it home?

 

[kasume]

For goodness sake, this IS the man who negotiated Michael's TII concerts, while saying that he didn't feel Michael would make one day in London. Never heard of such a thing.

Tell us Thome, why would you negotiate the concerts if you believed Michael wouldn't make one date? What were you really there for? Who sent you? What was their agenda?

And WHY did you believe Michael wasn't going to make it?

What did you know? What was going on behind scenes that no one else knew?

 

[whateverhappens50]

just when i though i was tryna deal with this whole thing. something else comes up. it just kills me they way his estate is being handled. he was the smartest cookie in the oven and the only dumb thing he did was to trust ingrates . i cant really put into words what i feel about thome whatever his name is. but i hope he rots in h. e. double hockey stick. i hope mrs jackson and the lawyers keep them hung up in court for years to come. the desrespect never ends. ( cries) i gotta go.

 

[kasume]

he was the smartest cookie in the oven and the only dumb thing he did was to trust ingrates

No. He didn't trust them. He wanted them OUT his life once for and all! Michael had begun to stand up for himself before the 25th.

 

[LaNixie]

Why are the things surrounding Michael's death&property so messed up :no:

 

[Ben]

Why are the things surrounding Michael's death&property so messed up :no:

Sadly, because there's so much money involved. The money he made himself, and the money that could be made... from us.