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Murray Trial Day 20. October 28th

Sue said:
How about the fact that all this was happening in a home situation without monitoring equipment? Have they forgotten that? I want to know Dr White's opinion on that!
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He will get that question on cross for sure
 
taking sly digs at shafer again, saying he didn't use the correct iv set ..
now there's two grandfather's demonstrating some thing..
 
whites got a syringe and bottles and fills it up with 5ml of lidocaine (saline) and 5 of diprivan going to ilustrate giving the diprivan.as shaffer used another IV set. saying shaffer said most of the dip would have stayed in the tubing. white says thats not correct

Has white addressed the high concentration levels and how they would have been so high if mj self injected? did i miss that?? cause thats the big question. its not possible as murray said there was a pulse or was all that average paitent talk and the levels u get vary his reasoning for that?
 
The defense is very disorganized. Embarrassing to watch, but good for us, I guess.
 
But there was something different White is forgetting about how Shaffer did it... (he used a clip as CM said to stop the saline flowing)
 
white believes every word murray said keeps saying this is what dr murray said he did. like that means anything!
 
Ok ok ok he rejects everything Shafer said now move on!!!

I wasnt saying to you guys btw
 
Yeah that's been bugging me too cos he's assuming Murray is telling the 100% truth.
 
I wish Walgren was going to do some cross today. Hit the witness straight after the direct testimony for the full effect.
 
Dr. White says you'd have to cut the bag and put the Propofol bottle in the bag because there's no way to secure the Propofol! :shock:

Is securing the Propofol bottle to IV not EXACTLY what Dr. Shaffer DID in front of Everyone in his testimony!
 
white rejects the IV senario cause its inconsistant of what murray said. is there any evidence there was an IV at the scene that could be used. he says u need a pump and something to hold the bottle ( he says the handle wasnt used) he mentions you cut the iv bag and put the bottle in there but if mj rolled over it could easily fall out of the iv bag. so he doesnt think it would work. (so what the heck was the bottle doing in there!! and the bottle had murrays print on it)

showing the IV bag with the split and the dip bottle. and showing the handle on the bottle wasnt used. showing that the handle wasnt used supports the prosecution theory.id be more concerned if the handle had been used as it would bring into doubt about it being in the IV bag.as there would be no need for it to be put in the Iv bag.
 
MMcParland Michael McParland



But n.b. Dr S's evidence that Ps Ex 30, has the slit in it that shows it has been spiked.

42 seconds ago
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McParland_20Michael_normal.jpg

MMcParland Michael McParland



On June 29th-investigation- Dr W thinks prpfl bottle (Ps Ex 30) has not had its hanging mechanism tag opened.

1 minute ago
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elusive moonwalker said:
Has white addressed the high concentration levels and how they would have been so high if mj self injected? did i miss that?? cause thats the big question. its not possible as murray said there was a pulse or was all that average paitent talk and the levels u get vary his reasoning for that?
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yes, with the 25MG rapid bolus, he talked about the concentration only, not murray's interview, he said it could happen if propofol was give too fast
 
Im scared!

dr white made 2 points that shaffer did get wrong! : LIdocaine wasnt used in shaffers model, which was prob used. And no hanger of bottle of propofol was used. Shaffer used it..

So jury can believe dr whites model.. :(

We need a good cross!! AND WE NEED shaffer back, in the redirect of the pros.. I hope they take the redirect!


Im soo scared the jury will buy dr whites model, which can be accurated too. Not that i believe that. But the jury needs to hear that CM had

1. no equipment
2. used propofol in home
3 delay in 911 call
4 never wrote records down

So make it clear walgren!
 
Walgren is going to rip this guy to shreds. I can just sense it. White is being so deceptive with his comments. Taking things completely out of context.
 
smoothlugar said:
But there was something different White is forgetting about how Shaffer did it... (he used a clip as CM said to stop the saline flowing)
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From the summaries, to illustrate the recent example done by White was not the same as that done by Shaffer.
CM in his statement to the police said that he turned of the saline before giving Propofol with a syringe. Shafer shows the rubber clamp and how you can stop the flow with the clamp. Shafer demonstrates infusing 25mg of Propofol with syringe as CM mentioned in his interview. Propofol doesn't come out of the tube as the saline is turned off and not coming to push Propofol out. So CM's description of infusing it over 3 to 5 minutes is impossible if the turned off the saline. You need to unclamp the saline for Propofol to come out.
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Ingelief said:
Im scared!

dr white made 2 points that shaffer did get wrong! : LIdocaine wasnt used in shaffers model, which was prob used. And no hanger of bottle of propofol was used. Shaffer used it..

So jury can believe dr whites model.. :(

We need a good cross!! AND WE NEED shaffer back, in the redirect of the pros.. I hope they take the redirect!


Im soo scared the jury will buy dr whites model, which can be accurated too. Not that i believe that. But the jury needs to hear that CM had

1. no equipment
2. used propofol in home
3 delay in 911 call
4 never wrote records down

So make it clear walgren!
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I know how you feel.
 
I missed some of the demonstration, from the posts in here I'm not sure ... did White turn off the saline or not?
 
any advantage to not using the handle and using the iv bag instead? no its not logical why would u go to the hassle of putting in a bag it could fall out. hes never invisioned that a bag would be used. spiked the bottle through the iv bag alberto claimed that.white says its not poss as the spike isnt long enough to go through the iv bag and into the diprivan bottle. (so why was there a spike mark in the diprivan bottle then?)

white says theres several otherways to give an infusion. spike the bottle and empty it into an IV bag and mix it for eg
 
bouee said:
yes, with the 25MG rapid bolus, he talked about the concentration only, not murray's interview, he said it could happen if propofol was give too fast
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but those levels could only be that high if mj died straight away. as shaffer said they go down and even if mj stopepd breathing straight away is heart would continue for upto 15 mins which would reduce the levels
 
"The CRIME scene" Now we know what White really thinks.
 
White just called the scene " a crime scene". there must be a part of him that is not completely on CM's side.
 
White is very unprofessional and also purposely deceptive, choosing and picking Murray's statement when it suits him to support his case. He also look like a "rat", those that is not trustworthy.
 
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