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Murray Trial - September 27 - Day 1 - Discussion Thread

jilliebean said:
Ok, so sorry to just jump in here and a little off topic, but I have to post this. Yesterday they played a recording of Murray and he said that after he gave Michael the propofol he (murray) went to the bathroom to relieve himself, but he also started that he not only relieved himself, but that he emptied Michael's urine that had been collected. Well this bothered me right away because he also stated that Michael didn't go to sleep that night and that is why so much medication was given. If Michael didn't go to sleep then why didn't he get up and use the bathroom when he had to go.

So then I was thinking maybe he already had the catheter so there was no point to remove it for Michael to go to the bathroom (which is wierd, but whatever), but this morning I woke up and the first thing I was thinking about was that in the photos the police took, there is a jug of urine, that I assume is Michael's that is quite full. Why is that still there if Murray emptied in a few moments before Michael passed??

I think Michael was asleep all night from the other meds, his urine was collected by the catheter because he was asleep, I think Murray gave Michael the propofol and killed him and the rest is cover story. I don't believe he left Michael alive when he went to the bathroom. The whole Bathroom story is BS in my opinion.
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Yes, good spot. The collection of urine contradicts the defence's claim that MJ was up and about all night as he couldn't sleep. They needed to say that because they are saying mj swallowed 7 pills of lazapam (sorry can't remember name) whilst he was wandering about on his own in his bedroom suite. Even the defence couldn't claim that in the 2 mins murray was in the bathroom MJ managed to down 7 pills AND self-inject a ton of propofol.

The defence of murray seems to be non-existent. In the opening statement they never mentioned anything that happened after mJ supposedly gave himself propofol whilst murray was in the bathroom. Nothing about murrays reaction to finding mj supposedly dead from this self-injection. And how can science 'prove' mj did the injecting rather than murray?
 
Are the defence going with the injection theory now? instead of drinking
 
I'm pretty sure they said propofol was self-administered, so that allows them a whole host of possibilities which they are prob still working on. Keeping their options open.
 
I've just came in here, so I've got some questions:

I've accidentally heard the first part of the audio recording when they showed it on TV. Of course I've turned it off because it would have been to painful to hear Michael in that state - but can anyone here write down what he actually said?
And what was the purpose of this audio recording, when was it recorded and who recorded it?
 
I can't copy and paste,but the text can be found on google, michael jackson recording murray trial, it's everywhere. We don't know yet why MJ was recorded, but it was done by murray as it was found on his iphone, supposedly done on 10 may just after he was hired by mj i think.
 
jilliebean said:
Ok, so sorry to just jump in here and a little off topic, but I have to post this. Yesterday they played a recording of Murray and he said that after he gave Michael the propofol he (murray) went to the bathroom to relieve himself, but he also started that he not only relieved himself, but that he emptied Michael's urine that had been collected. Well this bothered me right away because he also stated that Michael didn't go to sleep that night and that is why so much medication was given. If Michael didn't go to sleep then why didn't he get up and use the bathroom when he had to go.

So then I was thinking maybe he already had the catheter so there was no point to remove it for Michael to go to the bathroom (which is wierd, but whatever), but this morning I woke up and the first thing I was thinking about was that in the photos the police took, there is a jug of urine, that I assume is Michael's that is quite full. Why is that still there if Murray emptied in a few moments before Michael passed??

I think Michael was asleep all night from the other meds, his urine was collected by the catheter because he was asleep, I think Murray gave Michael the propofol and killed him and the rest is cover story. I don't believe he left Michael alive when he went to the bathroom. The whole Bathroom story is BS in my opinion.
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I had thought about this, too. There was some discussion about the urine on here before and when hearing Murray say he went to empty bottles, I was like, huh???

What's interesting about that jar in the photo (for those who aren't awarre) is that propofol was found during urinalysis according to the AR. I'm not sure if the amount was significant or anything as I'm leaving that to medical experts to figure out. The important thing, for me, is that this jar of urine indicates propofol was given to Michael way earlier than Murray said. Think about it, IF he had only given propofol to Michael just minutes before he died the propofol laced urine would not be in a jar on the table, it would have remained in MJ's distended bladder (AR indicated bladder was distended--which pretty much means it was either full or getting there). NONE of Michael's urine should have had propofol in it IF Murray had only given 25mg just before he died. The body couldn't possibly work that fast, could it? And then if you factor in Chernoff's lorazepam and propofol cocktail which would have killed Michael so fast that his eyes didn't have time to close, it definitely couldn't have gotten to his bladder...in my non-medical opinion.

Chernoff says this is a case based on science. There may a valid scientific reason WHY and HOW the small dose of propofol Murray "claimed" to have given MJ for the first and ONLY time that day turned up in a jar of urine so quickly. It may prove interesting to hear Chernoff's experts explain HOW MJ killed himself by drinking/injecting propofol while Murray was out of the room for TWO itty bitty minutes and HOW that teeny tiny amount got processed thru the liver in a record TWO minutes. Oh wait, MJ died instantly from swallowing eight pills and propofol. So I'm guessing it was a medical miracle that MJ's digestive system continued to work and delivered the propofol to the liver which also kept working long enuf to process/filter the propofol and somehow make its way, as if by magic, OUT of MJ's distended bladder and into a jar on the table.

Hmm....

I know many fans are waiting to hear from the experts about the propofol and all the analysis about administration and whatnot, but I wait for the day the urine in the jar (w/propofol in it) is explained. This is something that I have sorta kept in the back of my mind and have been hoping to get some sort of medical explanation for in this trial. I swear fo' God if it proves Murray was giving Michael propofol earlier than he claimed, he is double burnt toast. He's already screwed for leaving the room and not having proper equipment, etc. To find out he had been giving Michael propofol wayyyy earlier in the morning than he claimed will kill his incredibly STELLAR credibility.
 
ExoticPrincess;3495054 said:
Latest tweet:

Jermaine Jackson (@jermjackson5)

Today has been very distressing for all of us, and I'd like to thank you for your prayers at this horrible time. I would also like to remind some in the media that the voice recording of Michael does not show/prove he was "an addict" -- and this leap to agree with the defense is unfair and inaccurate. The prosecution said my brother "was under the influence of UNKNOWN agents" at the time of that recording by Murray. That some people, Jane Valez Mitchell HLN and Ted Rwlands CNN, make statements saying this shows my brother to be "a drug addict" is not what was said in court re that recording. Events are upsetting enough without correspondents adding their own interpretation (or back-dating events to 1993). No-one can rule out the prospect that Michael was groggy because of something administered to make him relax/sleep. That does not him an addict. I would also add that Murray was by his side "observing" as well as recording so it can have nothing to do with drug depdency because Murray's case is that he was unaware of any drug dependency. One more reason why "addict" is a leap to assumption in these circumstances. Some networks need to make this distinction clear and correct this imbalance. Bottom line: Michael did not kill Michael. http://tl.gd/dbc67m ·


I must say, I have my issues with Jermaine, but I really appreciate this tweet he made. I just want them to be this clear when they are speaking to the media and yes, call out Jane Velez-Mitchell, 'cause this all seems like some sort of entertainment to her.
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For the first time, I agree with Jerma.
 
Thanks for sharing that, I didn't know there was propofol in the urine in the jar, wow that is telling if it is accurate. Not only would it mean that Murray gave him more propofol than he claimed to, but that Michael probably would not have woken up and been in the right state of mind to take meds and give himself propofol. I would guess from having surgeries myself that even if you can be brought to a conscious state quickly, you may still be a bit "groggy" If he only left for a few minutes that wouldn't be enough time, like you said in my "non-medical opinion".

I feel more so now that this has started that this was done on purpose. I think if the prosecution was able to prove that Murray gave Michael the propofol while he was sleeping that they could have gone for a higher charge. I guess it would be hard to prove.

Two other things I think are odd also. First if Michael just wanted to sleep and wasn't going to attend rehearsals wouldn't Dr. Murray have notified someone. It was nearly 11 am it's not like this decision was made in the middle of the night. and If Michael wasn't going to go to rehearsal and had all day to sleep wouldn't he go have lunch with his children before "napping".

The other thing, and I think I posted this once before, but why did the body guard who made the 911 call, follow Murray's orders to hide stuff or clean stuff up. I would think that it was his job to protect Michael and if he walked in that room and saw Michael was in danger he should immediately call 911. That bothers me. I want to hear his testimony.
 
Thanks for sharing that Wendy2004, I didn't know there was propofol in the urine in the jar, wow that is telling if it is accurate. Not only would it mean that Murray gave him more propofol than he claimed to, but that Michael probably would not have woken up and been in the right state of mind to take meds and give himself propofol. I would guess from having surgeries myself that even if you can be brought to a conscious state quickly, you may still be a bit "groggy" If he only left for a few minutes that wouldn't be enough time, like you said in my "non-medical opinion".

I feel more so now that this has started that this was done on purpose. I think if the prosecution was able to prove that Murray gave Michael the propofol while he was sleeping that they could have gone for a higher charge. I guess it would be hard to prove.

Two other things I think are odd also. First if Michael just wanted to sleep and wasn't going to attend rehearsals wouldn't Dr. Murray have notified someone. It was nearly 11 am it's not like this decision was made in the middle of the night. and If Michael wasn't going to go to rehearsal and had all day to sleep wouldn't he go have lunch with his children before "napping".

The other thing, and I think I posted this once before, but why did the body guard who made the 911 call, follow Murray's orders to hide stuff or clean stuff up. I would think that it was his job to protect Michael and if he walked in that room and saw Michael was in danger he should immediately call 911. That bothers me. I want to hear his testimony.
 
OH MY GOD! Why oh why did my curiosity let me see and hear that? I honestly thought it would be bad but not this bad... My god, no no no.. Stuff like this should not, SHOULD NOT be public.

I'm honestly stunned.
 
Muarry had some reason for taping his patient while he was under the influence of something he gave him. I am glad Jermaine made it clear to Velez and the media, although they are not listening to him. I feel the prosecution did the right thing using the tape. It shows Muarry was lying. He gave Michael this medicine earlier than he tries to admit and he continued to use it when it adversely affected his patient. Usually doctors monitor how you are progressing under a drug and make necessary changes, and Muarry did not do that.

I know it is hard on some using the photo and the tape, but the way in which they were presented was necessary to show the depth of mistreatment and disregard for human life on the part of Muarry.

Can anyone tell me how to post some photos from a disc?
 
bluetopez said:
Smart doc for refusing to testify for Murray! He said Chernoff told him that when Murray does cardio version on his patients he doesn't start an intervenus he just put's the Propofol straight into the vein! =O Which Dr. Barry Friedberg said is reckless and not safe! So Murray gave people Propofol before, he knows what this is and never has given it the right way! OMG!
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Yes I like Dr. Barry too. He was outside talking to us and said Muarry is a psychopath and only cares about women. Something about Muarry really pissed him off. I guess he gives doctors a bad name.
 
Petrarose said:
Can anyone tell me how to post some photos from a disc?
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There might be a better way but you could open the video in whichever media playing program you like, then take a screen capture of whatever it is you want to take a picture of. Hope this is what you mean!
 
Stranger said:
As fans, we may have always known in the back of our minds, that Michael had major problems. As much as we didn't focus on the facial changes, his weight etc, it was clear that he had psychological problems and had suffered terribly. But seeing it play out like this made it so very clear. The poor man was in so much pain, so confused, so frightened that people wouldn't love him, that he had to go through this every night just so he could block it out and "disappear". What in God's name happened to him that woould make him think this was acceptable? How much emotional trauma had he suffered to lead him to this point?


Why couldn't he see that it didn't matter? Why was he so insecure that he couldn't see that it wasn't worth all this?

He should have cared enough for "his friend" to speak to someone (maybe his mother), inform them of the serious problems MJ had and forced him into a sleep clinic/drug rehab. If the whole family had got together with some trusted friends, MJ wouldn't have had a choice. He would have been forced to address the problem. Alternatively, the doctor should have been alarmed at the information from Michael that other doctors had used propofol on him before and reported them to the medical board/police.
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You lost me in this post. From what you are saying it seems that you are under the impression that Michael needed rehab. However, Michael needed a method to help him sleep. Muarry gave him the drug to help him sleep and not because Michael was a drug addict. Michael did not take prof because he was a drug addict. We have to listen to this in the media and here I come seeing a post implying this.

Next the part about not loved, in pain and frightened: Michael did not use the drug because he was not loved, in pain and frightened, but as a sleep aid.

We do not know that Michael did not use the services of a sleep professional before. It is logical that he used a variety of options before settling on this faulty one.

Morsmordre Thanks for the help, but I took some pictures outside the court yesterday and need help posting them from the camera or a disc into the pitcure thread.
 
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Aquarius said:
Bain just brought a good point. She says during the 2005 trial which was the worst time of his life she never saw or heard him the way he sounded on the tape. She said she spent a lot of time with Michael and never saw anything. She asks if there was some kind of foresnsics done on the tape to verify it's Michael.
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I agree with Raymone Bain. She makes many good points.
 
What about that song that Michael supposedly made call "Demeral". I never heard of that song. That's not really Michael who sang it, is it. I only heard what they played on TV.
 
Michelle MC said:
What about that song that Michael supposedly made call "Demeral". I never heard of that song. That's not really Michael who sang it, is it. I only heard what they played on TV.
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The name of the song is called Morphine and it was a song on the History Album.
 
I missed a lot of the trial yesterday too. It sounded like one of the Prosecution's witnesses(maybe Kenny) said the last song Michael sang before he passed. So did anyone say what his last song was and if so, what was it? Thanks in advance.
 
CinnamonGirl said:
InSession



#MichaelJackson's former rep wonders was that really his voice played in court yesterday, she spoke w/JVM last night...

:smilerolleyes:
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Righhhtttttt so they are gonna use a fake voice recording for this trial......AS IF! :rollseye: LOL bain is just ugh
 
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Petrarose said:
Can anyone tell me how to post some photos from a disc?
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You can upload images from your computer on any free image hosting server for example http://tinypic.com/ etc.
and then use Insert Image option here on MJJC in Your Message composer with direct image link for layouts from image hosting server or use created IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards from image hosting server --> copy/paste that code here in Your Message composer.

Also if you have own web space you can upload image there and then use Insert image option here on MJJC in Your Message composer with image link from your web space.

Did you ask that or...? :scratch:
 
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