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Preliminary Hearing 6/1/11 Day Three. Discussion thread

@ginnyjackson

i ask if there was a list of people in the house at the time or around? and is it possible that a teacher or something was there because it was day and the kids were homescholed.. right?

also is the girlfriend relyable? or is she a witness from the defense? *i dont know but so far all the witness are from the pros right?

And what is murray going to do in .... to clean up all these lies?>
 
Ingelief said:
Can anybody help me with this


Is there a list of persons in or around the house?????

And why is the girlfriend testifying is that reliable? Or is she a witness from the defensE?
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I am not aware of a complete list of people there.

I think the girlfriend was subpoened for the prosecution. I think she is supposed to talk about the phone call she had with Murray. Also, it was said at one time that Murray had propofol sent to he rhome. She may talk about that.

And, some have said Murray was spending time at her home on some nights. She may be called to testify about this.
 
@mthalen i dont think so that oral is binding from getting money

it surently not for a will
 
The records also show the frantic call Murray, 57, placed to Jackson’s personal assistant after he found the performer lifeless in the bed and a two-minute call with his girlfriend, Nicole Alvarez, apparently made while Murray was riding in the back of an ambulance with his patient.
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... smdh :(
 
mthalen said:
Isn't an oral contract binding in the US?
I know it is over here. You don't need a signature.
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it could be binding. technically an oral agreement is enough. but without a written record they are hard to prove.
 
Edited in order to not confuse anyone.
 
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11:49 am call placed from Murray to 702 xxx 4989 3 minutes.
11:51 am a call placed from Murry to 832-xxx-3832 11 minutes.
11 18 am call from 7xx 862 0973 placed 2xx 866 6802 and that call logged at 32 minu

below comment from kop board

Going by what the paramedics said, it's possible Michael died between 11.20am and 12noon. Assuming murray never cranked up the heat to hide the signs.

so the calls above are what coincide with the possible TOD bascially on the phone non stop. thats why he didint notice till 12
 
Ingelief said:
ok but is that relyable ginvid? i mean he is sooooo lieying why would she not do the same?
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We don't know where her loyalty lies. She will be under oath so anything she says will be on record and she will be in trouble if found to be lying. But if she feels she will not be caught, who knows what she could say or do???? We will have to wait and see.
 
mthalen said:
But iff Murray meant to kill MJ, what would be the reason?

MJ was worth more to him alive then dead (150.000 a month for almost a year adds up nicely).
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Murray hadn't been paid anything by the time he killed Michael (because the contract weasn'y signed). There were rumours that Murray wasn't going to London (and the fact that Michael called Lee for advice rather than his own doctor does make me wonder if there's some truth in this rumour) so he wouldn't get his $150,000 a month!
 
This is hearbreaking...

It's very difficult for me to learn all the details.

How can a doctor call himself a doctor if his priority is not to save life?

This is sickening.
 
GinnyJackson;3178392 said:
sounds to me like you are trying to be against mj but for Murray. Its alright we all know that murray has his supporters but they are wrong and so are you.
Its not open to interpretation. The EMT says there was no sign of drug abuse i am more inclined to believe them then you.
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Nope, I'm here to find the truth.

And you don't have to believe me, it's not my blog I quoted from. You want to believe the EMT answered there was nog sign of drug abuse, I choose to believe this answer is probably more correct:

Do you have any reason why they could not find a vein? Is it in your exprience, people who are as skinny as they are, that drug addicts that it’s difficult to find a vein? The witness gives an example of a known drug addict with tattoos and he is still able to find a vein.


When you read the question it makes no sens to answer there was no sign of drug abuse, because that's not what was asked. The question was if it's harder to find a vein in a drug addict, which would be either "yes" or "no" and not "there was no sign of drug abuse".


Just because I'd rather hear the objective facts doesn't make me a Murray supporter. Please check up on people before you go off on them. I'm in Europe, up until 02:00 every day to follow this trial, and have to get up at 07:00. The MJ dolls in my sig are standing in my livingroom...
Good luck finding a Murray supporter who does that.

Now back on topic please, and stop making personal attacks
 
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Ingelief said:
@ginnyjackson

i ask if there was a list of people in the house at the time or around? and is it possible that a teacher or something was there because it was day and the kids were homescholed.. right?

also is the girlfriend relyable? or is she a witness from the defense? *i dont know but so far all the witness are from the pros right?

And what is murray going to do in .... to clean up all these lies?>
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I think these people were in the house: the chef, the nanny and the kids, MJ and Murray, the security (2 people, I think). I haven't heard of anyone else being there when it happened.

the girlfriend is a witness for prosecution, since only prosecution is calling witnesses during the prelim, as far as I understood. I don't know if she's reliable, but let's hope she won't decide to lie under oath.

as for what Murray is going to say in his defense.. we'll wait and see. personally I think nothing he will ever say will make him look less guilty.
 
Ingelief said:
@mthalen i dont think so that oral is binding from getting money

it surently not for a will
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No, I meant: if MJ had been alive and gone on tour, Murray would've had a contract, unsigned up until now, but it showed intent to get paid $150.000 a month.
 
love is magical said:
This is hearbreaking...

It's very difficult for me to learn all the details.

How can a doctor call himself a doctor if his priority is not to save life?

This is sickening.
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I get what you are saying but I keep thinking that what he should have been doing is protecting Michael's life by monitoring him like he was suppose to; then maybe Michael wouldn't have needed saving.
 
It's mindblowing! He was on the phone like 70 minutes in the last two hours before 911 was called! In addition to that he was texting and data messaging. That means he was much more using his phone than anything else! Completely amazing!
 
i havent made a personal attack... not yet. Keep pushing and i might. and just fyi all drug addicts are not alike. my mother isnt a drug adict and they cant find a vain to put in an iv when she needs one. Some peoples vains are small some arent. i just believe you are here to bait people just my opinion. And this is all very much on topic.

mthalen;3178425 said:
Nope, I'm here to find the truth.

And you don't have to believe me, it's not my blog I quoted from. You want to believe the EMT answered there was nog sign of drug abuse, I choose to believe this answer is probably more correct:

Do you have any reason why they could not find a vein? Is it in your exprience, people who are as skinny as they are, that drug addicts that it’s difficult to find a vein? The witness gives an example of a known drug addict with tattoos and he is still able to find a vein.


When you read the question it makes no sens to answer there was no sign of drug abuse, because that's not what was asked. The question was if it's harder to find a vein in a drug addict, which would be either "yes" or "no" and not "there was no sign of drug abuse".


Just because I'd rather here the objective facts doesn't make me a Murray supporter. Please check up on people before you go off on them. I'n in Europe, up until 02:00 every day to follow this trial, and have to get up at 07:00. The MJ dolls in my sig are standing in my livingroom...
Good luck finding a Murray supporter who does that.

Now back on topic please, and stop making personal attacks
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This is all so hard to fathom. In what way is realising a person, which you should have been monitoring, is in distress and instead of calling 911 you make a couple of phone calls, send some text messages, before even thinking about dialling 911 even acceptable? It's not and its time these stupid charges were upped. This goes beyond manslaughter here.
 
JMie said:
I think these people were in the house: the chef, the nanny and the kids, MJ and Murray, the security (2 people, I think). I haven't heard of anyone else being there when it happened.
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hasn't the chef yesterday mentioned also something about housekeepers who were crying? sorry if I understood it wrong.
 
I know I am a little late with this question - but what 'noises' could have heard that was suggest that Michael was in distress?

The prosecution's opening statement said the call 11 minute call 11:51 was terminated when the caller heard 'noises'.

This has me curious.
 
mthalen said:
No, I meant: if MJ had been alive and gone on tour, Murray would've had a contract, unsigned up until now, but it showed intent to get paid $150.000 a month.
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Not necessarily. There is a thread about this in the conspiracy section (and hopefully it will be either confirmed or denied). But the fact that he had no sign contract and they were so close to going over seas, and yet MJ had not made provisions for Murray to practice there, could show the opposite than an intent ot get paid.

It could show there was never any intent to offically hire Murray at all.

I'll keave it there so as not to delve into conspiracy territory.
 
Ingelief said:
@ginnyjackson

i ask if there was a list of people in the house at the time or around? and is it possible that a teacher or something was there because it was day and the kids were homescholed.. right?
Click to expand...

I think school semester would be over at end of June so I dont think a teacher was there, but I could be wrong.

So far, Ive only heard about chef Kai Chase, the nanny Sister Rose, dr Murray and then all the bodyguards entered the house.
 
And we have had relatively civil discourse so far today. Let us keep it that way!
 
TheChosenOne said:
I know I am a little late with this question - but what 'noises' could have heard that was suggest that Michael was in distress?

The prosecution's opening statement said the call 11 minute call 11:51 was terminated when the caller heard 'noises'.

This has me curious.
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gasping, gargling
 
The prosecution's opening statement said the call 11 minute call 11:51 was terminated when the caller heard 'noises'.

This has me curious.
Click to expand...
they were talking about the person on the other end. murray dropped the phone and the person could hear noises of what was going on
 
summer said:
...But the most important therapy really is securing the airways...making sure the patient is getting oxygen. Propofol will wear off eventually...you just gotta make sure the patient is getting oxygen and is safe. And THAT'S why you need an anesthesiologist there when giving Propofol because he/she will know what to do and how to help you so that you WILL get enough oxygen and so that you won't die. It's that simple really.

Had Murray monitored MJ and had he INTUBATED Michael the second MJ stopped breathing, Michael would still be alive. Really. That simple.
...
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A cardiologist doing one-handed CRP on a soft surface is probably not someone versed in emergency intubation. (since apparently the thought of intubation with GENERAL ANESTHESIA hadn't even entered his mind judging by the lack of any gear).

Hell, I would have turned into MacGyver and BUILT a @#$%^&*( intubation tube from the kid's bicycles tires - ANYTHING. It is beyond hard breaking that a medical professional doesn't have the guts to ACT.

I thought I was heartbroken but this stuff is just beyond belief.
 
TheChosenOne said:
I know I am a little late with this question - but what 'noises' could have heard that was suggest that Michael was in distress?

The prosecution's opening statement said the call 11 minute call 11:51 was terminated when the caller heard 'noises'.

This has me curious.
Click to expand...

I would think just some kind of gasping for air. I'm sure that your body still instinctively reacts the same as if when you are awake when in need of air.
 
from twitter:

ndjustice4some andjustice4some
SUSPEND MURRAY'S LICENSE AT THE END OF PRELIM.
1 minute ago

andjustice4some andjustice4some
CNN REPORTER INSIDE COURTROOM REPORTS THAT EVEN THE JOURNALISTS ARE HORRIFIED BY TESTIMONY, MOST AGREE THAT JUDGE WILL (CONT.)
 
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