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surveillance tapes (all threads merged)

From today's TMZ Live Q&A chat

Q = Why the hell would LAPD delete the 24 hours of surveillance footage in the house of the most famous man on earth on the day he died?

Harvey: Here's the back story here. When Michael Jackson died the LAPD came over and they were trying to piece this together. At the time they came over this did not seem like a homicide to them. It looked like a death that somebody had but not a homicide. I got some sources that I was talking to yesterday. And that's what happened. They decided..

Charles (TMZ staff) : but still

Harvey : I know but what they decided was the video the surveillance video from the cameras at his house were relevant only to the extent to establish a timeline of when he died. So only they cared about was when he went into the house because they knew he never left after that. so when did he go in? so they found it around 12:30 , they got that video about 4 minutes worth. and that was it. they copied it over. and the video recycles every 24 hours. so they never pulled it and it's gone forever. so we have no idea. now you really wanna know who came in , who came out, when did Murray came, the whole thing but it's gone forever. And Murray's team wants it and they didn't even know this yesterday but we found out late yesterday put it up on the site today. It's gone. they just never though it was a homicide when this happened.

Charles: I kinda understand it but if it's Michael Jackson who is dying at that age isn't a natural thing. so your first thought should be - I would think - "let's make sure all our bases are covered here.It doesn't look like a homicide but he shouldn't have died at this age, let's make sure everybody who is here and when".

Harvey : It wasn't done.
 
Justthefacts said:
If someone else was in the house like Ivy said they would have been noticed. And in the two minutes Murray was out of the room someone snuck in shot Michael up with Propofol and left without being noticed? This is not a Lifetime movie folks I mean come on
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Yea, someone snuck in through all the security, exactly during the 2 minutes Murray was out of the room, killed MJ and got out, but foolishly left themselves being filmed by the camera LOL.

Come on, people, this tape won't be of much importance and you know there's nothing on that tape. Murray is obviously desperately grasping at straws.
 
Who are the Charles and Harvey people that keep popping up in the thread. Are their statements factual or are they simply giving their take on evidence.
 
Actually let's talk about the scenarios here

1. Another person came in the house to kill Michael and Murray knew this or was in on it as well - Murray wouldn't need any tapes for this , he can simply tell the "conspiracy" of who, what , when but he's not doing this - his defense is there was 2 people in the room and Michael killed himself

2. Another person came in the house to kill Michael and Murray didn't know this - so in this case you either have this perfect killer who was able to bypass the security / staff / MJ's kids and come in the exact moment that Murray was out of the room to kill Michael with propofol or you have everyone (all security and staff) being in on it and a killer again bypassing MJ's kids and Murray to kill Michael with propofol.


I think the defense is playing us and the public just to introduce reasonable doubt into people's minds so that Murray can walk.


Petrarose said:
Who are the Charles and Harvey people that keep popping up in the thread. Are their statements factual or are they simply giving their take on evidence.
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They are TMZ like I wrote in the beginning. Everyday TMZ does Live Question and Answer chats that they answer questions. It was what they said today to a question. So it's basically what they hear from their sources combined with their opinions. I wouldn't personally call it factual.
 
ivy said:
Actually let's talk about the scenarios here

1. Another person came in the house to kill Michael and Murray knew this or was in on it as well - Murray wouldn't need any tapes for this , he can simply tell the "conspiracy" of who, what , when but he's not doing this - his defense is there was 2 people in the room and Michael killed himself

2. Another person came in the house to kill Michael and Murray didn't know this - so in this case you either have this perfect killer who was able to bypass the security / staff / MJ's kids and come in the exact moment that Murray was out of the room to kill Michael with propofol or you have everyone (all security and staff) being in on it and a killer again bypassing MJ's kids and Murray to kill Michael with propofol.


I think the defense is playing us and the public just to introduce reasonable doubt into people's minds so that Murray can walk.





They are TMZ like I wrote in the beginning. Everyday TMZ does Live Question and Answer chats that they answer questions. It was what they said today to a question. So it's basically what they hear from their sources combined with their opinions. I wouldn't personally call it factual.
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I really wish I could just put out of my mind that Murray didn't act alone in this...I am not a conspiracy theorist by nature..I just cannot shake this feeling. Maybe t is just the NOT knowing that is stuck in my brain..I wish I knew.
 
xthunderx2 said:
I really wish I could just put out of my mind that Murray didn't act alone in this...I am not a conspiracy theorist by nature..I just cannot shake this feeling. Maybe t is just the NOT knowing that is stuck in my brain..I wish I knew.
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Why do you believe he did not act alone even with the evidence out now? There has to be something putting that idea into your head. Or is it just a total hunch without any slight clue or hint?
 
ivy said:
I think the defense is playing us and the public just to introduce reasonable doubt into people's minds so that Murray can walk.
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That's what I think also. But in my opinion, this is what has been going on since the very day that Michael died.
 
I am very skeptical about the tapes being gone. My instict yells that tapes are safe and sound, sitting on some hard drive. And the recovery methods really work in the age of technology.
Anyway, let's pretend to swallow the pill and see where that takes us.
More scenarios can be added here which of course can't be proved now..but they can't be disproved either, so?
For example, Murray could be following orders and it could be recorded on tape how methodically he worked to get things done. Also, erased tapes could contain info on how he actually lied about leaving Michael alone just for 2 minutes to go to the restroom.
Compromised evidence can't possibly have no effect on the course of justice being served.
Therefore, we will have to settle on justice being served based on LAPD's early assumtions? Is their role really to "assume" something that will be proved or disproved later? Or do whatever is necessary to ensure proper and untampered investigation?
It was a high profile and very untimely death, so if they had to assume anything it should be the worst in order to have their backs covered.
For whatever reason their lack of judgement will lead to a crippled procedure. Wow. Any entity or individual causing a similar disruption in a procedure would be somehow, sometime held accountable.
And I really don't get Harvey's part on this. He sure acts as a designated spokesperson for Murray's defense.
 
@Maria

From the previous court transcripts we have learned that the cameras were only outside. so they could at most show who comes in and out of the house.
 
It was said that LAPD didn't have a reason to suspect something, just 2 days after June 25, when they spoke with Murray, and that this is something normal given the circumstances...
I don't understand something... When were the surveillance tapes been taken, the day Michael died or after they spoke with Murray?

If they thought at first, that it was a heart attack and not a crime, why on earth they took the surveillance tapes but they weren't interested in anything else?
Is this a standard procedure, that the surveillance tapes to be taken even if there is no doubt of anything wrong?
If they have taken them on June 25, WHY?
Instead, if they have taken them after June 25 it's clear that they already suspected something... So why they deleted them?? In this case a videotape does not automatically turn to be a proof?
I don't know the U.S laws, but for me the whole story seems to be a S.F. movie. Very strange.
 
MJCrySpeechless said:
I don't understand something... When were the surveillance tapes been taken, the day Michael died or after they spoke with Murray?
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June 25th.

If they thought at first, that it was a heart attack and not a crime, why on earth they took the surveillance tapes but they weren't interested in anything else?
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if we go with what TMZ says, they didn't take the tapes. they just looked to them and copied the parts that they thought was relevant.

if this was a normal death -like they assumed- the only thing would be relevant will be Michael's actions. So it looks like they tried to establish his movements. A normal death report would have been like "Michael Jackson came home around 12:30AM and when the staff brought his breakfast at 11:00AM found him unresponsive in the bed". So that was what they were aiming at.

Is this a standard procedure, that the surveillance tapes to be taken even if there is no doubt of anything wrong?
If they have taken them on June 25, WHY?
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again according to TMZ they didn't take them. They just looked to them.

Instead, if they have taken them after June 25 it's clear that they already suspected something... So why they deleted them?? In this case a videotape does not automatically turn to be a proof?
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TMZ says they looked to them on June 25th and they didn't really delete them either. The system is automatic and records to the same tape over and over reseting everyday at 12:00 am. As they didn't take the tapes - as they didn't suspect anything- , on June 26 12:00 AM the security system recorded over the old footage.

Again all of the above is according to what TMZ reports.
 
I think the defense is playing us and the public just to introduce reasonable doubt into people's minds so that Murray can walk.
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totally is just one of their many defence theories that is as illogical or possibly more illogical and ridiculous than all the rest. a jury aint gonna aquit murray cause they think someone else came in an did it but they may believe mj asked for it he was just as to blame blah blah blah.but yet again this is just smoke and mirrors but unfortunatly it seems to be playing into their hands with some fans who are inclined to think its all coming from aeg/sony etc so think the smoking gun of the hired hitman coming into the house to do the deed has been erased on purpose.

anyway i thought the tape issue was gonna be discussed at yesterdays hearing? there been no reports of it being mentioned has there? so this whole thing has been created by TmZ and their article. great distraction tactic
 
kasume said:
Why do you believe he did not act alone even with the evidence out now? There has to be something putting that idea into your head. Or is it just a total hunch without any slight clue or hint?
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I dont really know what it is Kasume...I think it is just something in me with acceptance of the whole situation...my heart finds it hard to believe that Michael's died because Murray gave hm to much of this..to much of that. The evidence is presenting in the way that is what happened. I guess my heart will always feel different than the evidence.
 
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ivy said:
if we go with what TMZ says, they didn't take the tapes. they just looked to them and copied the parts that they thought was relevant.

if this was a normal death -like they assumed- the only thing would be relevant will be Michael's actions. So it looks like they tried to establish his movements. A normal death report would have been like "Michael Jackson came home around 12:30AM and when the staff brought his breakfast at 11:00AM found him unresponsive in the bed". So that was what they were aiming at.


TMZ says they looked to them on June 25th and they didn't really delete them either. The system is automatic and records to the same tape over and over reseting everyday at 12:00 am. As they didn't take the tapes - as they didn't suspect anything- , on June 26 12:00 AM the security system recorded over the old footage.

Again all of the above is according to what TMZ reports.
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Thanks Ivy, now I understand better the whole situation.
I thought that they took away those tapes, not that they have just looked to them.
 
This is what Samantha reports from inside the courtroom

Ok, let's make it clear regarding the surveillances cameras at Carolwood and what TMZ reported. I was in the court room and what TMZ reported is not very accurate! There are 13 minutes of recording. Recordings were logged by 24 hour cycles and supposedly motion-sensored. Defense said they got it in two parts (from the prosecution) and that it was not motioned-sensored because some recordings they witrnessed were motionless. Prosecution said they still were trying to contact LAPD and the security company to find out if ANY MORE recordings were available. All surveillance tapes are from outside and in front of the entrance gates.
 
thank you for posting that Ivy..I am so unsure what to believe anymore. I wonder if every court case is like this..the only thing is ususally people dont see all this stuff between the defense and the pros. Or is it that the LAPD have dropped the ball and made a complete mess out of this whole case.
 
ivy said:
This is what Samantha reports from inside the courtroom

Ok, let's make it clear regarding the surveillances cameras at Carolwood and what TMZ reported. I was in the court room and what TMZ reported is not very accurate! There are 13 minutes of recording. Recordings were logged by 24 hour cycles and supposedly motion-sensored. Defense said they got it in two parts (from the prosecution) and that it was not motioned-sensored because some recordings they witrnessed were motionless. Prosecution said they still were trying to contact LAPD and the security company to find out if ANY MORE recordings were available. All surveillance tapes are from outside and in front of the entrance gates.
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Well, THAT's certainly ambiguous. Either the system was motion sensitive, or it wasn't, and that should be pretty easy to determine. If it was motion sensitive, then thirteen minutes might be all there ever was. But if not, where DID the rest of it go? I'm not buying it that they are "unavailable" because the owner of the house has them. The LAPD could have required the owner to hand them over as evidence.

Murray's defense has been throwing out theories left-and-right. One might be that "someone else killed Michael." If the tapes are missing and/or incomplete, that's the theory they might go with to try to establish reasonable doubt. Not likely that will fly, though.
 
ivy said:
Defense said they got it in two parts (from the prosecution) and that it was not motioned-sensored because some recordings they witrnessed were motionless.
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At work we have motion sensored cameras, and they sometimes they record motionless stuff. I don't know why, but it happens. It could be a change of lights, the wind (leaves moving for ex), etc..

To me it could mean that they have all the recordings that exist.
 
ivy said:
@Maria

From the previous court transcripts we have learned that the cameras were only outside. so they could at most show who comes in and out of the house.
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Thanks Ivy. I need to get back to those transcripts.
So there really isn't much to hope for. Who walked in and out during the still hours can be established by security.
 
ivy said:
This is what Samantha reports from inside the courtroom

Ok, let's make it clear regarding the surveillances cameras at Carolwood and what TMZ reported. I was in the court room and what TMZ reported is not very accurate! There are 13 minutes of recording. Recordings were logged by 24 hour cycles and supposedly motion-sensored. Defense said they got it in two parts (from the prosecution) and that it was not motioned-sensored because some recordings they witrnessed were motionless. Prosecution said they still were trying to contact LAPD and the security company to find out if ANY MORE recordings were available. All surveillance tapes are from outside and in front of the entrance gates.
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some other info that the above person who was in th courtroom reported on was totally false. it was inregards to the subs that are trying to be quashed. not saying what is posted above is wrong but unfortunalty we have to be weary of even fan reports cause some ppl report things wrongly

Murray's defense has been throwing out theories left-and-right. One might be that "someone else killed Michael." If the tapes are missing and/or incomplete, that's the theory they might go with to try to establish reasonable doubt. Not likely that will fly, thoug
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i hope they do that as its the must ridiculoous one of the lot and unlike the others where u can try and confuse jurrors with medical stuff this is as obvious as they come
 
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Conrad Murray is quite an arrogant B.
He killed/caused the death of one of the most beautiful beings to ever walk the face of this planet; yet, even though he, Murray, is facing only 2.5 years of confinement under minimal security; he is in the process of developing a whole series of lies about Michael Jackson, in order to save himself any inconvenience at all.
The fact is whether he did it alone or with someone else Conrad Murray is responsible for the death of
Michael Jackson.
He makes me throw up in disgust. :puke:

Only God can deal with the evil that lurks in the hearts of some men.
 
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Honestly, just by judging from the many defense (contradictory) versions and how they just can't make up their mind what 'better' scenario they should put forth screams of guilt. This alone. Michael was the wiping cloth of too many non-dignified, worthless beings in this life that were fortunate enough to meet this meek, beautiful person. Surveillance tapes or not, Someone above has seen it and is seeing it all, these people can go on hiding and lying and vilifying, making noise all they want, don't wish them ill, it's just stating a truthful reminder that Murray and others won't be able to escape/defy 'law' forever.
 
ivy said:
June 25th.



if we go with what TMZ says, they didn't take the tapes. they just looked to them and copied the parts that they thought was relevant.

if this was a normal death -like they assumed- the only thing would be relevant will be Michael's actions. So it looks like they tried to establish his movements. A normal death report would have been like "Michael Jackson came home around 12:30AM and when the staff brought his breakfast at 11:00AM found him unresponsive in the bed". So that was what they were aiming at.



again according to TMZ they didn't take them. They just looked to them.



TMZ says they looked to them on June 25th and they didn't really delete them either. The system is automatic and records to the same tape over and over reseting everyday at 12:00 am. As they didn't take the tapes - as they didn't suspect anything- , on June 26 12:00 AM the security system recorded over the old footage.

Again all of the above is according to what TMZ reports.
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and I trust TMZ almost as much as I trust the LAPD. I mean, come on, the detectives (Robbery/Homicide) even said that their Chief sent them in on this at around 4PM on the 25th because of this death being high-profile. Even if they had no suspicions, they should have secured the entire tape on the 25th--that they say it was because they didn't suspect anything really, they just recorded 4 minutes of Michael entering----bs IMO
 
elusive moonwalker said:
some other info that the above person who was in th courtroom reported on was totally false. it was inregards to the subs that are trying to be quashed. not saying what is posted above is wrong but unfortunalty we have to be weary of even fan reports cause some ppl report things wrongly
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really? and so... how reliable is TMZ as a source?

:mello:
 
motion censored but did not tape the paramedics entering and leaving the property !!!!!!!!

"I found a syringe on the table but I was collecting only pills " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just freaking admit you believed he was a 'junkie' and did not even bother to investigate anything because that's exactly what happened .

comes to mind that pinkish bag they were waving infront of the cameras LOOK WE FOUND THAT IN HIS HOUSE GO WILD WITH YOUR IMAGINATIONS !!!
 
Soundmind said:
motion censored but did not tape the paramedics entering and leaving the property !!!!!!!!

"I found a syringe on the table but I was collecting only pills " !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just freaking admit you believed he was a 'junkie' and did not even bother to investigate anything because that's exactly what happened .

comes to mind that pinkish bag they were waving infront of the cameras LOOK WE FOUND THAT IN HIS HOUSE GO WILD WITH YOUR IMAGINATIONS !!!
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 are you talking about the very old bag of pot that they found in the closet..that was soooooo old it was moldy?..lol
 
no, I'm talking about the pinkish bag full of pill bottles they kept waving infront of the cameras , giving everone the impression he was using all those bottles and obvioulsy from the way they conducted the investigation that's what they truly believed he overdosed himself

We can't comment but hey don't miss this bag
 
Soundmind said:
no, I'm talking about the pinkish bag full of pill bottles they kept waving infront of the cameras , giving everone the impression he was using all those bottles and obvioulsy from the way they conducted the investigation that's what they truly believed he overdosed himself

We can't comment but hey don't miss this bag
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well they sure were sadly mistaken now weren't they... poor Michael ...they tried to label him and addict from the beginning. These folks have dropped the ball when it comes to those tapes...shody police work...thats what it is.
 
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