the marks on michael's leg - what were they?

[BillieJean84]

I was watching Nancy Grace around June 26- on up ; she was doing a show on Michael & mentioned his drug use & showed a photo of Michael Jackson, his pantlegs pulled up & showed the marks on his legs that looked as if someone looked if they was shooting up.


I have not read any documents not once so I don't know what that showed but what were these marks on his leg?

 

[TarinJade]

A number of years ago Michael was bitten by a venomous spider (Brown Recluse?). His dermatologist took pictures of the wound. That is probably the picture you saw. It's been used in stories claiming that Michael had a flesh-eating bacteria, etc.

 

[BillieJean84]

Oh ok. Then Nancy Grace is a ------ for having posted those pictures on her show when it had nothing to do with drugs / "shooting up"

 

[ginvid]

Michael's former manager Dieter (or whatever his name is) said in an interview that those were not spider bites. He said those were infections as the result of needles breaking off in MJ's legs. His comment were taken as fact by the media. If Nancy showed those pictures in connection with drug use, that would be why.

 

[The Healer]

Please....I saw those pictures long, long before 25.6 09 and those were pictures of a spider-bite !
What drugs and needles are you talking about, those were spider-bites and that is confirmed.

 

[Autumn II]

I had a spider-bite two summers ago. I had a wound EXACTLY like the one pictured.. . but thankfully, not as serious. It lingered for months. Now I have a scar from it. Strangely, it's in exactly the same place as the wound/scar that Michael had.

I saw NO evidence of "shooting up" in those photos. What I saw was the painful result of the bite of a highly venomous spider. Exactly as Michael said.

(I've wondered why the autopsy results. . . that stuff that was "leaked," made no mention of that scar? My spider-bite was not nearly as serious, but I still have a scar, and I'm sure Michael had a very obvious scar, as well. Just another strangeness, that it was not mentioned?)

 

[dirtydiana27]

I had a spider-bite two summers ago. I had a wound EXACTLY like the one pictured.. . but thankfully, not as serious. It lingered for months. Now I have a scar from it. Strangely, it's in exactly the same place as the wound/scar that Michael had.

I saw NO evidence of "shooting up" in those photos. What I saw was the painful result of the bite of a highly venomous spider. Exactly as Michael said.

(I've wondered why the autopsy results. . . that stuff that was "leaked," made no mention of that scar? My spider-bite was not nearly as serious, but I still have a scar, and I'm sure Michael had a very obvious scar, as well. Just another strangeness, that it was not mentioned?)

You know Vic, there were other scars, evidence of both Lupus and Vitiligo, etc. that were not revealed in the "leaked" report--I think it is because the doc who reviewed the autopsy report just commented on his observations regarding cause of death, etc. I checked on this doc, and he is reputable--but my question would be who gave the report to the AP in the first place? As far as I know, there has never been a release by officials regarding the autopsy.

 

[ginvid]

Please....I saw those pictures long, long before 25.6 09 and those were pictures of a spider-bite !
What drugs and needles are you talking about, those were spider-bites and that is confirmed.

Thank you for your comment. I was not saying they were not spider bites. I was simply saying that MJ's former manager claimed they were from needles being broken off from drug use and the media ran with assertions. That is probably why Nancy Grace is associating the two. It wasn't made up completely in her mind. People would rather believe what they want. So what if it is from an unscrupulous thief. As long as he tells them what they want to believe about MJ. That's how sad they are.

 

[Autumn II]

You know Vic, there were other scars, evidence of both Lupus and Vitiligo, etc. that were not revealed in the "leaked" report--I think it is because the doc who reviewed the autopsy report just commented on his observations regarding cause of death, etc. I checked on this doc, and he is reputable--but my question would be who gave the report to the AP in the first place? As far as I know, there has never been a release by officials regarding the autopsy.

Well, for one thing, the "leaked" report might have been entirely fiction? (We really have no way of knowing.) But yet, there were some scars mentioned, including by his knee that might have been the result of knee-surgery, and one on his cheek. He must have usually covered that one with makeup, but it's evident on some older photos. Plus a scar on his shoulder, and others. None of these had any bearing on a murder investigation. I was just wondering why the scar on his leg (shin) wasn't mentioned? It's possible that we'll never know. . . .

 

[mier]

Oh, I still don't think they have released the real autopsy report.
They just gave us something that seemed to be real enough so we (the fans) and the media would keep quiet.

 

[Moddie777]

Michael's former manager Dieter (or whatever his name is) said in an interview that those were not spider bites. He said those were infections as the result of needles breaking off in MJ's legs. His comment were taken as fact by the media. If Nancy showed those pictures in connection with drug use, that would be why.

I saw this horrible interview too. It made my stomach turn.

 

[Moddie777]

Oh, I still don't think they have released the real autopsy report.
They just gave us something that seemed to be real enough so we (the fans) and the media would keep quiet.

I have the same feeling in my gut about the "leaked" autopsy report.

Remember when we first got word of fresh needle marks on MJ's body? Then we recieved word, quickly that wasn't true?

Well guess what? Alot of people close to the situation believe those initial reports of the condition of our Michael's body just maybe closer to the truth than someone wants us to believe...

If true this could explain alot of whats going on now.

 

[Autumn II]

I have the same feeling in my gut about the "leaked" autopsy report.

Remember when we first got word of fresh needle marks on MJ's body? Then we recieved word, quickly that wasn't true?

Well guess what? Alot of people close to the situation believe those initial reports of the condition of our Michael's body just maybe closer to the truth than someone wants us to believe...

If true this could explain alot of whats going on now.

I believe the early "reports" were probably accurate. They corresponded to what we SAW in terms of his thinness and general physical condition, and to what the Follower Fans reported. I've SEEN those emails to and from Karen Faye. I can't see that the FF could have had any possible reason for fabricating that. Why WOULD they? As I've often said, they were afraid that Michael would die. And then Michael died. It was not his "thinness" that killed him. I think his physical condition told the AEG execs that he would not be able to do the concerts. He had a doctor with him to tell the execs what he thought about his capability to sustain the effort of fifty concerts. And the rest is history. . . . ..

If Michael could not get into good enough condition for the concerts, I in no way fault him for this. He could have still put out music. He could have done the Broadway musical he wanted to do. He could have gotten into film. He could have RAISED HIS CHILDREN!

I think his visits to Klein's office were to treat some very real medical condition, and not for cosmetic procedures of some sort, and not for propofol. I think the entire propofol story is a red-herring. I DO believe it was the murder weapon. There were reports that Michael appeared disoriented after the clinic visits. He may have been sedated for some necessary medical procedure. We just don't KNOW.

 

[daisydaisy]

I've forgotten exactly what the follower fans said at the time but I know MJ tried on a jacket they made for him.....did they see his arms at all?

It's scary about the propofol victoria, how on earth can the investigators know one way or another if it was consensual?

 

[Autumn II]

I've forgotten exactly what the follower fans said at the time but I know MJ tried on a jacket they made for him.....did they see his arms at all?

It's scary about the propofol victoria, how on earth can the investigators know one way or another if it was consensual?

They CAN'T know if it was consensual. The "stories" that came out on the news made it seem that it was consensual, with the implication that Michael "begged" for it, and then it killed him. I have never believed this. It just doesn't ring true to me. . . . . .

The FF never reported seeing any needle-marks on his arms, that I can recall.

The FF wrote emails to Karen Faye (but please let's not deviate and get into K.F. stuff here? :bugeyed) asking for her help. A number of us here have seen the emails before they were removed. The FF observed Michael at a rehearsal and said he was incredibly, dangerously, thin. He was wearing white and they said that they could see every rib, and his backbone, and he looked like he could die, he was so emaciated. They were freaked out! They said other members of the cast and crew weren't relating to him at all, weren't even looking at him.

They asked K.F. to intervene. She told them that she'd written an email about it to Randy Phillips, and that she was terribly concerned, too. But then she told them to be QUIET about it. Nothing happened. The FF wrote letters to Michael expressing their concern. They gave them to him on the night right before he died, but a body-guard took the letters from them and said they'd get them to Michael, and that they could not talk to him then, but would be able to speak by phone soon. He and body-guards went into the house. The FF tried to reach him, but all calls were dropped. They don't know for certain if he was given the letters, or read them. Within hours, he was dead.

 

[goldiee]

Their first mistake was fooling with Karen Faye. I don't know what else they could have done but that woman is useless and another enabler to me. Michael always said he would not perform himself into death or old age but.....

 

[Thetruthbetold]

Oh, I still don't think they have released the real autopsy report.
They just gave us something that seemed to be real enough so we (the fans) and the media would keep quiet.

Yes I came to a conclusion about that to. I don't trust anything thats being put out. As for Nancymugly see needs help she the one who almost died last year she needs to tone her hate down and get her back off the wall corny ass B****

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

I believe the early "reports" were probably accurate.

Which ones? We heard various claims such as he was only 108 pounds, had nothing but pills in his stomach and was bald.

I think the entire propofol story is a red-herring. I DO believe it was the murder weapon. There were reports that Michael appeared disoriented after the clinic visits. He may have been sedated for some necessary medical procedure. We just don't KNOW.

Why do you think that?

Yes I came to a conclusion about that to. I don't trust anything thats being put out. As for Nancymugly see needs help she the one who almost died last year she needs to tone her hate down and get her back off the wall corny ass B****

Really? What from? Nancy DisGrace has kids now, you'd think she'd be a bit more understanding.

 

[Autumn II]

Which ones? We heard various claims such as he was only 108 pounds, had nothing but pills in his stomach and was bald.

Why do you think that?

With all due respect, I've discussed this already many times in other threads. I don't have time now, but maybe tomorrow I can look up the links? That the earlier "leaks" were at least in part true is my opinion, but I'd like to move forward, as possible?

As far as the thread topic is concerned, those photos of Michael's leg appeared on a doctor's web-site, as well as migrating other places. On the doctor's website, the photos weren't labeled as being Michael, but with the comparison to the tabloid photo, the wound was identical. Plus there were the marks of vitiligo that were obvious. The wound was on the top of the shin, where there is bone, and it is unlikely that that was a site for an injection. I do remember that it was said that the wound was due to an infection at an injection site, but that really seemed unlikely. I think the wound was exactly what Michael said it was.

 

[StephluvsMJ]

As far as the thread topic is concerned, those photos of Michael's leg appeared on a doctor's web-site, as well as migrating other places. On the doctor's website, the photos weren't labeled as being Michael, but with the comparison to the tabloid photo, the wound was identical. Plus there were the marks of vitiligo that were obvious. The wound was on the top of the shin, where there is bone, and it is unlikely that that was a site for an injection. I do remember that it was said that the wound was due to an infection at an injection site, but that really seemed unlikely. I think the wound was exactly what Michael said it was.

I agree. Why would Michael inject something into his shin bone? It doesn't make sense. At the time, the media were searching all over the place to find evidence of drug abuse. These pictures made their way into the spotlight (they had been around for years) and Marc Schaffel and Dieter Wiesner helped this story along by claiming the wound was caused by an injection.

Regarding the results of the autopsy, the official report has not been released as of yet. The coroner's office released an official statement with the cause of death and the list of drugs in MJ's system, but made no mention of his weight or the condition of his body. I guess everyone will go on speculating until something official comes in.

 

[Popescu]

I believe the early "reports" were probably accurate. They corresponded to what we SAW in terms of his thinness and general physical condition, and to what the Follower Fans reported. I've SEEN those emails to and from Karen Faye. I can't see that the FF could have had any possible reason for fabricating that. Why WOULD they? As I've often said, they were afraid that Michael would die. And then Michael died. It was not his "thinness" that killed him. I think his physical condition told the AEG execs that he would not be able to do the concerts. He had a doctor with him to tell the execs what he thought about his capability to sustain the effort of fifty concerts. And the rest is history. . . . ..

If Michael could not get into good enough condition for the concerts, I in no way fault him for this. He could have still put out music. He could have done the Broadway musical he wanted to do. He could have gotten into film. He could have RAISED HIS CHILDREN!

I agree. Someone posted today pictures of Mike from 2009. His forearms are similar to mine and I'm a thin girl (it would take me some time to convert my weight and height in pounds and inches, but I'm sure Michael was taller than me). I believe the folower fans, not the last leaked autopsy report. Also, the camera "adds" weight, so you should look at pictures to see how thin he was.

On topic, I've searched the net for spider bite necrosis, and it does happen (horrible pictures!). The great saphenous vein runs across the side of the leg, not on the front. And the story about the heroin that man tried to sell is preposterous.
Yes, Mike came up sometimes with invented stories to get out of variuos gigs (remember "remember the time?" ), but I don't think he ever lied about serious medical conditions.

He said he had vitiligo, they didn't believe him. That he had lupus, same story. He said a spider bit him, they didn't believe him. Blah. The story of his life. It's really, really sad.

Ironically, in the articles supporting the IV theory, they said that the pictures also show he DID suffer from vitiligo. Morons.

 

[BillieJean84]

Also what was said on Nancy Grace was that MJ injected himself / had marks all on his arms & even the neck. she didn't show any pictures but said that & thats why he was so covered up from the neck down...


QUESTION: can make up cover up these marks? or nothing can be able to?

 

[Autumn II]

Also what was said on Nancy Grace was that MJ injected himself / had marks all on his arms & even the neck. she didn't show any pictures but said that & thats why he was so covered up from the neck down...

I've seen screen-captures from TII rehearsals where he's wearing a t-shirt, with arms exposed, and there is no sign of needle-marks. Nancy Grace is well known for talking out her azz. Plus, there were no signs of narcotics in the official tox report, and if there had been the media would have been all over it like white on rice. If he was "covered up" most of the time, I'd assume that was because he was COLD.

 

[daisydaisy]

A few months ago I saw on a segment about brown recluse spiders. It was on the Discovery Channel & is called The Human Body: Ultimate Machine and the episode I watched was called Sensation.

It was to do with the nervous system and one segment was about pain and how your body can block pain in certain situations. They mentioned this guy in the US who was bitten by a Deadly Brown Recluse Spider and he didn't feel pain for like a day after the bite. Sounded extremely painful and they are deadly. The narrator also said it can cause gangrene (nectrotizing black tissue ie what Michael had on his shin). So it's quite common knowledge that this is the case yet someone started the rumour and accused Mike of having gangrene due to injections and basically saying a spider bite wouldn't cause this scar.

Here's the link to the show, it starts just after a minute or so in the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=salxfaJCjuI

Plus more pics of brown recluse bites: http://www.ascendedhealth.com/brown-...TE-PICTURE.HTM

 

[daisydaisy]

They CAN'T know if it was consensual. The "stories" that came out on the news made it seem that it was consensual, with the implication that Michael "begged" for it, and then it killed him. I have never believed this. It just doesn't ring true to me. . . . . .

The FF never reported seeing any needle-marks on his arms, that I can recall.

The FF wrote emails to Karen Faye (but please let's not deviate and get into K.F. stuff here? :bugeyed) asking for her help. A number of us here have seen the emails before they were removed. The FF observed Michael at a rehearsal and said he was incredibly, dangerously, thin. He was wearing white and they said that they could see every rib, and his backbone, and he looked like he could die, he was so emaciated. They were freaked out! They said other members of the cast and crew weren't relating to him at all, weren't even looking at him.

They asked K.F. to intervene. She told them that she'd written an email about it to Randy Phillips, and that she was terribly concerned, too. But then she told them to be QUIET about it. Nothing happened. The FF wrote letters to Michael expressing their concern. They gave them to him on the night right before he died, but a body-guard took the letters from them and said they'd get them to Michael, and that they could not talk to him then, but would be able to speak by phone soon. He and body-guards went into the house. The FF tried to reach him, but all calls were dropped. They don't know for certain if he was given the letters, or read them. Within hours, he was dead.

Thanks for the recap. I'm glad the follower fans were there for him those last few weeks, their story is so so sad, especially about the dropped calls and about the crew members not looking at him. I really hope that someone from the crew or dancers comes forward and tells it exactly how it was. Hopefully, at least one of them would want the truth out there, even if it means losing their contract with AEG....

Yeah, it's really tricky as far as the investigation goes- Maybe the medical records they've got from all the docs will provide some clues as to whether or not it was consensual? Yes, any and all docs who prescribed it him should be punished if they did, but if there are no records of any propofol use like this, then maybe this could be key?

 

[Autumn II]

Thanks for the recap. I'm glad the follower fans were there for him those last few weeks, their story is so so sad, especially about the dropped calls and about the crew members not looking at him. I really hope that someone from the crew or dancers comes forward and tells it exactly how it was. Hopefully, at least one of them would want the truth out there, even if it means losing their contract with AEG....

Yeah, it's really tricky as far as the investigation goes- Maybe the medical records they've got from all the docs will provide some clues as to whether or not it was consensual? Yes, any and all docs who prescribed it him should be punished if they did, but if there are no records of any propofol use like this, then maybe this could be key?

Many, many people saw Michael in his last days. They all are afraid for their jobs, and many have families. All it will take is for ONE brave person to tell the truth. Just ONE. In the total scheme of things, that person will be a hero, and i just hope they are reading here?

 

[daisydaisy]

Many, many people saw Michael in his last days. They all are afraid for their jobs, and many have families. All it will take is for ONE brave person to tell the truth. Just ONE. In the total scheme of things, that person will be a hero, and i just hope they are reading here?

Yes, I hope they are reading here too. If just one person comes forward, then this could trigger another and another, until AEG could no longer touch them. The wall of silence coming from the TII team is so loud. I pray this will happen soon.

I reckon Sony bought the TII tapes partly so that any scenes that could portray what the follower fans said could never, ever be made public. This fits in with the missing video of Michael from June 2nd-Sony removed all the links from youtube and probably the rest of the internet too.

 

[Autumn II]

Yes, I hope they are reading here too. If just one person comes forward, then this could trigger another and another, until AEG could no longer touch them. The wall of silence coming from the TII team is so loud. I pray this will happen soon.

I reckon Sony bought the TII tapes partly so that any scenes that could portray what the follower fans said could never, ever be made public. This fits in with the missing video of Michael from June 2nd-Sony removed all the links from youtube and probably the rest of the internet too.

You are quite right, and thank you. . .

 

[MJJ7777]

I've seen screen-captures from TII rehearsals where he's wearing a t-shirt, with arms exposed, and there is no sign of needle-marks. Nancy Grace is well known for talking out her azz. Plus, there were no signs of narcotics in the official tox report, and if there had been the media would have been all over it like white on rice. If he was "covered up" most of the time, I'd assume that was because he was COLD.

Right. He might have also covered up due to his skin condition too. It was no secret MJ still had visible signs of vitiligo on his body.

I remember Joe Jackson saying that he specifically asked Prince if he's ever seen his father shirtless, Prince said yes, he then asked did you ever see any marks on his arms, neck that looked like needle marks ? And Prince said no. He only remembers his dad being hooked up to the IVs or oxygen tanks, don't really remember which, but I know Joe recounted this on Larry King Live.

 

[BillieJean84]

the scabs, scars, markings... they could easily be covered up with / camouflauge flesh colored make up? or no?