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The cause of that devastating recording?

ForeverKOP

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I'm still very upset from hearing that recording of Michael played on the first day of court. I was totally caught off guard and when I heard it, I completely broke down. It was so difficult and painful to hear him like that :cry: I know they said that he was under the influence of an unknown drug, but based on what Murray was giving him and what was found in the bedroom (propofol, lidocaine, lorazepam, midazolam, diazepam, etc.), which one of those medications would cause a reaction like that? I mean, it was absolutely devastating to listen to :(. Even now, I've got tears in my eyes just thinking about it and writing these few words out. I know this purely speculation at this point and I hope I don't offend anybody by this. If it's felt that this is inappropriate to discuss, please lock the thread. Thank you.
 
I found the recording to be worse than the picture personally. I just can't really get my head around it....
 
I think they have a good reason for playing it .
We have to wait and see.

Although Michael sounded awful in the tape, he knew what he wanted and I can understand him.
Sometimes if you talk to a drunk person he/she can jump from subject to subject and you don´t understand what they talk about.
 
I agree about the recording...The picture wasn't bad, but the recording has forever been ingrained in my head....I listened to it once, and I never will again...

This is just my guess, but I'm thinking that the medications he was on were some heavy doses of the benzos, and possibly propofol with it...Just that combination would cause him to sound like he did :(
 
Mj coming around from murrays benzos/diprivan seeing as it was taken at 9am
 
Listening to that recording was absolutely devastating to me.... :( heartbreakng... :(
 
Speaking of the recording....I really wish it wasn't one of the first videos to show up when searching Michael Jackson on youtube.
 
what was Murray's plan with this recording..what was the purpose of doing it? and is it against the law for a physician to 'record' his patient in such a condition? The medical boards better get to work in stripping this man of his license
 
My guess is Benzos, but could have been something else. I have had surgery with Propofol and was able to even speak on the phone without sounding anything like that. (people are different, just speaking from my experience, that's just anecdotal)

I'd say wait and see why the prosecution considers it a crucial piece of evidence. Murray looked as if he wanted to slide from the chair underneath the table when it was brought up in the opening statement- that alone tells me there's a lot more information to be gleaned from said recording.

Never loved the man more- still talking about a Children's Hospital. That's the reason this man is loved beyond comprehension.
 
You know, I don't find the recording of itself heartbreaking or sad.

Michael sounds the way he does because he is now emerging from "sleep". This is common, not peculiar to Michael.

What is sad is that Murray felt he had to tape him!
 
TheChosenOne said:
You know, I don't find the recording of itself heartbreaking or sad.

Michael sounds the way he does because he is now emerging from "sleep". This is common, not peculiar to Michael.

What is sad is that Murray felt he had to tape him!
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yes, and I hope we will learn what the reason was behind him doing such. :(
 
I believe that the recording as all the proof the World needs that murray was giving Michael inappropriate substances that eventually took his life. The words toxic and poison come to mind.


It's either that or the recording is fake!
 
Th dr on the stand said u wouldnt have slurred speech after being given diprivan but you would from benzos
 
Well, I'm most certainly no medic, so my opinion is thoroughly uneducated in this regard, and I freely admit this and thus am providing nothing but my own opinion on the matter--in other words, I come to no conclusions, and state merely a hypothesis. My hypothesis is that whatever drug Michael was under (if any, although I have to admit it seems likely) was a benzodiazepine. These are known for their use in treating anxiety/panic disorder and (less effectively) for the treatment of insomnia. Therefore, it could be possible that Michael was given said type of drug to deal with either (or both?) problem.

Having never taken said medication, (and, again, being no medic and pretending no medical expertise whatsoever), I cannot vouch whether or not his reaction to this medication was typical or atypical of those who are administered similar doses (in itself difficult to conceive, as we do not know how much he was given--or when-- at the time this recording took place).

However, diprivan is used as an anesthesia agent because of its rapid effect--meaning Michael would not have time to utter all he said while under its influence, assuming he reacted to it in typical fashion.

The fragmented mode of thinking (going from talking about the concert tour to talking about building a children's hospital) without any linguistic connectors (the thoughts were coherent, but the verbal connection was incomplete), the deepened voice (I am aware his actual voice was deeper than the one he used in public, but in my humble opinion, this seems deeper than the voice featured on 2000 watts--again, I claim no expertise whatsoever!), and especially the significantly slurred speech (observations of sedative effects taking place) are all indicators of being under the influence of some type of chemical substance.

However, I commit myself to nothing, not knowing with full clarity the facts of the event. Therefore, the above stated is all educated speculation.
 
^^ Yeah, i agree its more likely to be benzos rather than quick acting propofol but like you have zilch medical knowledge. I'm wondering if we'll get more of the context of the recording when the prosecution play more of it. Without murray's testimony (which would unlikely to be true anyway) i'm not sure we're going to know why it was made. Rather than making it to leak to the media, i would have thought a more likely reason would be for murray to use with the head honchos at aeg if they tried to block his appointment as mj's doctor - mj sounding drugged up would be disastrous for this is it public relations. It does seem to be some sort of 'insurance' policy for murray.
 
^I have read about the effects of these drugs, so I have theoretical knowledge of their effects and their basic uses. Even when stating something that is meant to be an opinion, one should ensure there are at least some facts rationalizing the hypothesis. However, I very obviously have no medical experience or training, which is why my opinion is of little value. I'm a historian, not a doctor. So, I just gave my perspective on the possible cause of Michael's state when that tape was recorded.

As for possible motives for Murray to record this, he evidently has not proven himself to be a very smart or methodic man, so I cannot see him putting so much thought into anything. I think his thought was to sell it to the media for profit...his history sums him up to be an "immediate gratification" sort of guy. However, that's obviously just speculation on my part based on my observations and knowledge of his prior conduct, in relation to this case. He was, of course, quite desperate for cash and very overambitious in having his first asking price be $5,000,000. If he thought he could make AEG bow to its knees, I don't think he would have taken it down to $150,000 per month.

The tape could actually make Murray seem worse in the eyes of AEG, so I don't see how he could use it as blackmail against them--what kind of doctor records his patient all drugged up and does nothing about it (except order more drugs)? So, I think the anonymity and ease of selling the tape to the media would have appealed to him--everyone who does not live under a rock knows Michael Jackson-related news sell, especially (and very unfortunately) if they are negative.

So, it seems like the most obvious thing to me, knowing how Murray functions from observing his behaviour thus far.
 
I wonder if someone can please fill me in as I didn't watch the first 2 or 3 days of the trial.

How did (I'm assuming) he prosecution get their hands on this recording of MJ? I've read that this recording was done by Murray, on his iPhone. How would the prosecution even KNOW about it unless he admitted to having it?........or was Murray's phone seized and this recording found on it?

When this recording was played in court, how did the defense react to it? Did they offer any explanation as to why Murray had made such a recording and why he would have kept it?

I just can't seem to find any real details on it, online.

Thanks so much
 
Since the phone records were significant to Murray's behavior and state of mind during the night of Michael's death, that probably gave them the green light to seize his phones and examine them forensically as well. In his opening statement, Walgren referred to this recording having been found by a tech.
 
Krshna28 said:
I believe that the recording as all the proof the World needs that murray was giving Michael inappropriate substances that eventually took his life. The words toxic and poison come to mind.

It's either that or the recording is fake!
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The recording is not fake. It was recovered from Murray's phone, along with the calls and texts he made, and entered into evidence. (police confiscated his phone as part of the investigation.) WHY he recorded Michael that way, or what he intended to do with the recording, hasn't been part of testimony (and if Murray doesn't take the stand, we probably won't get that info).
 
Tonight or within the next couple of days the investigators will take the stand to tell of their findings, and they will also explain the dramatic find of the recording of Michael on Murray's iPhone (iTalk app). They also interviewed Murray during two hours so I'm hoping that when they take the stand, we will hear about the reasons why Murray recorded his patient, without his knowledge. Doesn't this fact by itself, recording your patient without his knowledge, break the patient-doctor confidentialty, and isn't this sufficient reason for Murray to lose his license ??? ( Hippocratic oath and such)
 
MJ_FANtastic said:
I thought the message left on the phone was a voicemail from MJ, not a recording?
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No, it wasn't a voicemail. Murray recorded it with a special recording program on iPhone ( I forgot the name of that program).I personally think, he wanted to blackmail Michael with it.
 
MJJLaugh said:
Tonight or within the next couple of days the investigators will take the stand to tell of their findings, and they will also explain the dramatic find of the recording of Michael on Murray's iPhone (iTalk app). They also interviewed Murray during two hours so I'm hoping that when they take the stand, we will hear about the reasons why Murray recorded his patient, without his knowledge.
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I'm not expecting the recording to be discussed when the detectives' interview with murray is broadcast in the trial and the detectives testify. The interview took place on 27th (?) june and the timeline murray gave in this interview was completely inconsistent with what his phone records show. Clearly the detectives didn't have any clue at that point about the phone calls. Not sure when murray's phones were taken away as evidence (it would be then that they would have discovered the recording) but it would be at that point that witnesses from the LAPD could testify about the recording.

Did murray never watch any us cop shows? Surely he would realise his mobile phones would be looked at in an investigation esp as he was saying he couldn't phone 911 as there was no reception.
 
MJJLaugh said:
Tonight or within the next couple of days the investigators will take the stand to tell of their findings, and they will also explain the dramatic find of the recording of Michael on Murray's iPhone (iTalk app). They also interviewed Murray during two hours so I'm hoping that when they take the stand, we will hear about the reasons why Murray recorded his patient, without his knowledge. Doesn't this fact by itself, recording your patient without his knowledge, break the patient-doctor confidentialty, and isn't this sufficient reason for Murray to lose his license ??? ( Hippocratic oath and such)
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Not sure if the discussion of the recording will be today, or when they put various forensic technicians on the stand? I do think we'll hear about it, though, or that awful recording wouldn't have been played as part of the opening statement?

(bolded) seems to me that Murray certainly DID violate confidentiality -- with the recording, and in many other ways. Including -- with the pharmacist.

This seems to be a man with an almost total inability to plan ahead (various baby-mamas, likely result of giving propofol in a home, and so on). Not sure if he watched "cop-shows," but he seems not to have the mental capacity to know that his phone records could be TRACED, when he gave that initial time-line to cops? And that the recording was on his phone?

I really don't understand why he would do such a thing, as to record Michael that way? Clearly he wasn't "weaning" Michael off of medications, because he kept ordering shipments, in massive amounts. Did he think that, somehow, he could SELL that recording to a tabloid, if Michael happened to fire hm and he never got to London? I can't really think of why ELSE he would make a recording like that? :ph34r:
 
^Well, it'll be a miracle if he doesn't lose his licence. But, even if he didn't, I don't see why anyone would want to go with him (unless they had a death wish) knowing full well how many violations of medical standards he has committed...and we're only a few days in.

With that said, to answer someone's previous message, no this is not a voicemail. In the full recording, which was aired in court today, you can hear Murray actually talk back to Michael, thus proving he saw everything happening as it happened regarding Michael's impaired speech and incoherent sentence structure. Michael also said "I'm asleep" at the end. :(
 
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