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Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date April 2, 2013

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Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

KJ777 said:
One of the dates in question is the 20th of June. Nurse Cherilynn Lee was called on the 20th of June by someone from Michael's place just 5 days before his death. Who from his house made that phone call to her? As she has stated in interviews, Michael himself is heard yelling "tell her, tell her!" in the background about being both hot and cold and not feeling well. He was not on the phone directly with her according to her previous statements. Why? Something is obviously wrong with him and others knew it too as they answered the call from her directly. Yet he's still attending tour rehearsals afterward? Ms. Lee says she even instructed the person who answered her returning call to get him to a hospital because she couldn't get to him being that she was in Florida. Why did "they" not take him? Did they (person who spoke to Lee) tell Michael he should go the hospital? This situation seems awfully serious to me. Wth happened? I'd like to hear the audio. Where was Dileo, did he know? This particular call to Lee was never released to the public, will it be used? The audio should prove interesting to a jury be it trial or lawsuit.imo What did AEG know of this phone call to Lee about his condition and where was Murray at the time? How does this factor into the lawsuit against AEG over Michael's death? Dunno... Everyone involved had a story to tell of these events, yet none of it seems to add up.
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What I don't understand about this story, is that if Michael had his physician with him at all times, why the need to call a nurse on the other side of the country complaining about symptoms? Murray was right there.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

StephluvsMJ said:
What I don't understand about this story, is that if Michael had his physician with him at all times, why the need to call a nurse on the other side of the country complaining about symptoms? Murray was right there.
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That's why I debate this characterization of Murray as Michael's long term personal physician. Why was Michael asking Nurse Lee for propofol when Murray has been there all along? Perhaps Michael had started to distrust him. None of it makes sense.
 
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Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

The fact that some medical experts would say there's no side effects to Profofol is crazy. I just looked it up again in my Mosby's Nursing Drug reference book and there's many side effects; and yes, shivering, tremor, confusion, dizziness are only a few of them.

Why did MJ call nurse Lee on father's day? Good question. Maybe Murray had the day off to be with his numerous kids but still, HE was Michael personal doctor in that time period.

Is Lee telling the truth???

We won't know anything for sure until all these people are sworn in on the witness stand. Unless they don't mind commiting perjury for their own agenda or safety whatever the case may be.

On a side note; swearing on the Bible to tell the truth and nothing but the truth is a travesty of justice IMO. People don't really care. There's should be a lie detector device in each stand and instead of swearing on the Bible people would get hooked up to the lie detector.
 
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Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

I tend to believe Lee because we got the information first on propofol from her. Still there are a lot of unanswered questions like this meeting with Dr. Adams, Murray and MJ in March.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Didn´t Murray say that he had given propofol to Michael for a long time without problems?
Why was he trying to get Michael to sleep on pills then, if he didn´t think there had become a problem with it?
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Thread cleaned. Enough of the personal attacks and hostility. There is no need to drag this thread through the mud. Either give it up or take it to PM.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

I havnt read the entire thread so dont know if you guys have mentioend this. I think the reason for why AEG stopped Michael to see Klein were he was getting heaps of BAD PRESS!!

For instance TMZ were ALWAYS showing clips of MJ when he were visiting Klein and it was always in a negative kind of way, always made a reference to the concerts. Then other articles also constantly talked about his health, about him having cancer and that he didnt eat and other stuff and kinda raised a warning finger becasue he was gonna do the tour soon.

Michael got tons of bad press due to his doctor vistis so close to the shows.. thats why i think AEG asked MJ not to see Klein.
 
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Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Vici said:
I havnt read the entire thread so dont know if you guys have mentioend this. I think the reason for why AEG stopped Michael to see Klein were he eas getting heaps of BAD PRESS!!

For instance TMZ were ALWAYS showing clips of MJ when he were visiting Klein and it was always in a negative kind of way, always made a reference to the concerts. Then other articles also constantly talked about his health, about him having cancer and that he didnt eat and other stuff and kinda raised a warning finger becasue he was gonna do the tour soon.

Michael got tons of bad press due to his doctor vistis so close to the shows.. thats why i think AEG asked MJ not to see Klein.
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The problem is that he didn't stop seeing Klien. Michael saw him up to two days before he died.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

riviera1992 said:
The fact that some medical experts would say there's no side effects to Profofol is crazy. I just looked it up again in my Mosby's Nursing Drug reference book and there's many side effects; and yes, shivering, tremor, confusion, dizziness are only a few of them.

Why did MJ call nurse Lee on father's day? Good question. Maybe Murray had the day off to be with his numerous kids but still, HE was Michael personal doctor in that time period.

Is Lee telling the truth???

We won't know anything for sure until all these people are sworn in on the witness stand. Unless they don't mind commiting perjury for their own agenda or safety whatever the case may be.

On a side note; swearing on the Bible to tell the truth and nothing but the truth is a travesty of justice IMO. People don't really care. There's should be a lie detector device in each stand and instead of swearing on the Bible people would get hooked up to the lie detector.
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Now that is a good idea however it probably won't happen, ever!:(
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

riviera1992 said:
The fact that some medical experts would say there's no side effects to Profofol is crazy. I just looked it up again in my Mosby's Nursing Drug reference book and there's many side effects; and yes, shivering, tremor, confusion, dizziness are only a few of them.
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This is true, although most of these side effects are relatively short lived, ie hours. There's always going to be exceptions of course, and it would seem reasonable to think if Propofol were used frequently by a person, the higher the likelihood of some sort of side effect, but that's just guessing on my part. From a medical logic standpoint though, it's hard for me to directly relate one sided coldness, numbness with Propofol. Propofol is systemic when given IV, doesn't just affect one side of the body. That sounds more like nerve/disc/thoracic outlet syndrome, or vascular spasm that will affect just one side.

It's hard to remember with certainty because of everything reported and by whom, but didn't CM state at some point that he was attempting to wean Michael from the Propofol use? That was the reason for the other meds?

Also, his initially asking Nurse Lee for Propofol or info on someone that would utilize it, was that during a time when Murray may have been trying to wean it? The timeline is fuzzy to me, so can't remember if Murray was even directly involved with Michael when he spoke with Lee, was that prior to or during the rehearsals?
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

HeroR said:
The problem is that he didn't stop seeing Klien. Michael saw him up to two days before he died.
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I know he visited Klein on June 22 so he did not listen obviously.. but IF the claim about AEG doing an intervention on June 18 is true then that is what I believe... Why else would they ask him stop seeing him?

I dont know if you followed MJ-news back then.. but from the day he announced the shows, there were bad press about his health

Michael being skinny and not eating... Michael having skin-cancer.. Michael going to the doctor all time... Would he be able to do the shows? The articles always made references to the old pic of MJ in a wheelchair in Vegas. TMZ always uploaded Michaels visits to Klein. One TII staff has shared in interviews that they checked out TMZ before rehearsals to see if MJ had gone to Klein becasue then they knew what to expect (or something like that). Even when they pushed back the first shows some critics were asking if it was becasue of Michaels health.

What Im trying to say is that it was so much bad press about MJ and his health at that time so that might be the reason for AEGs intervention, dont know just a guess because honestly why would they ask him to stop seeing Klein when Klein "only" injected him with botox and as someone else in this thread has pointed out prescribed him Tizanidine, Zanaflex, Prednisone.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

bgz said:
This is true, although most of these side effects are

Also, his initially asking Nurse Lee for Propofol or info on someone that would utilize it, was that during a time when Murray may have been trying to wean it? The timeline is fuzzy to me, so can't remember if Murray was even directly involved with Michael when he spoke with Lee, was that prior to or during the rehearsals?
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No. Murray's claim about weaning came after the request to Nurse Lee. It sounds as if Murray was saying only as recently as June 24 or late June that he begun to try to wean MJ.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

MJ was very aware of healthy stuff for his body like the foods he ate and stuff like that according to interviews he did. So if he was cold and hot when he talk to nurse lee and asked for Propofol that wouldn't make sense! Since he would have known what Propofol does to ones body like the side effects! So him being aware of healthy stuff and all why would he even ask for it in the first place!?

This is so confusing! Cause if he knew why ask her for Propofol then and ask Murray to give it to him too later? Did he even know what Murray was given him then? WTF?! o_O Yea I know he needed sleep. But, put two and two together and it makes no sense!
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

O.K., remember, the Sunday that he called Cherilyn Lee was Father's Day and it is possible that EVERYONE was given the day off by AEG, including Dr. Death. When Michael bagan having shivers and hot flashes at the same time, it may have felt like "one side cold, one side hot". He became afraid and was trying to get help anywhere he could so he instructed one of his body guards to call nurse Lee who he prob. felt was still in L.A. When she told him to go to the hospital he is probably the one who made the decision not to go----the bad press about his health, the news media everywhere surrounding the hospital, etc. Plus AEG wouldn't be happy, so he just stayed in and "toughed it out". It passed, as most side effects do within hours. He wasn't given Propofol that night as far as we know. He was given it again Monday night (according to Dr. Death). Michael prob. didn't realize/know that what he felt on Sunday was a result of a bad reaction to the Propofol, so that's why he took it again and again. Dr. Murray stated that "he was worried Michael was becoming adddicted to Propofol" so that's why he tried to wean him off of it, only being successful one night, I think (that last week).
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

^^^ This theory makes a lot of sense to me.


bluetopez
Yes very confusing. MJ wanted to be the healthiest he could be but come night time he needed drugs to sleep. Insomnia is the worst torture. I know, I used to have it.

Also, I wonder if Murray told AEG which drugs he was giving Michael during that June 18 meeting? If he'd told them about Propofol, then why requesting the special medical equipment only for London and not LA?

One other thing; I'd think Michael would've told Murray how bad he felt on Father's day and Murray should've known it was a bad reaction to the drugs so maybe that's why he wanted to wean him off. Yet he gave him Propofol again. What an incompetent fool.
 
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Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

riviera1992 said:
^^^ This theory makes a lot of sense to me.


bluetopez
Yes very confusing. MJ wanted to be the healthiest he could be but come night time he needed drugs to sleep. Insomnia is the worst torture. I know, I used to have it.

Also, I wonder if Murray told AEG which drugs he was giving Michael during that June 18 meeting? If he'd told them about Propofol, and why needing the special medical equipment only for London and not LA?

One other thing; I'd think Michael would've told Murray how bad he felt on Father's day and Murray should've known it was a bad reaction to the drugs so maybe that's why he wanted to wean him off. Yet he gave him Propofol again. What an incompetent fool.
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It is not Murray's place to tell AEG anything about what drugs Michael was or was not taking. That is information that is between a doctor and a patient and it is illegal for a doctor to tell anyone what type of care they are given a patient unless they are asked by the authorizes. Michael's own family could not even illegally asked Murray anything even if they thought he was given Michael dangerous medication.

Also, if it was the whole 'tough it out', why did they allow him to call a nurse to begin with? Logic says if he was that worried to call for help, he would had gone to a hospital, since he thought it was serious enough to call for help. Given how Michael was, I doubt he cared what the media or AEG would think of the trip. He pushed his concerts back a week, kept seeing Klien even with the health rumors, and allowed himself to be seen in a wheelchair. So, I doubt PR was first on his mind.

You are also taking Murray at his word, and he has proven time and time again to be a liar. Until the full tox comes out, which shows the entire drug history, I am willing to bet that Murray only gave Propofol once the entire time he was there. Or at the very least, he didn't give it as many times as he was trying to say.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

HeroR said:
It is not Murray's place to tell AEG anything about what drugs Michael was or was not taking. That is information that is between a doctor and a patient and it is illegal for a doctor to tell anyone what type of care they are given a patient unless they are asked by the authorizes. Michael's own family could not even illegally asked Murray anything even if they thought he was given Michael dangerous medication.

Also, if it was the whole 'tough it out', why did they allow him to call a nurse to begin with? Logic says if he was that worried to call for help, he would had gone to a hospital, since he thought it was serious enough to call for help. Given how Michael was, I doubt he cared what the media or AEG would think of the trip. He pushed his concerts back a week, kept seeing Klien even with the health rumors, and allowed himself to be seen in a wheelchair. So, I doubt PR was first on his mind.

You are also taking Murray at his word, and he has proven time and time again to be a liar. Until the full tox comes out, which shows the entire drug history, I am willing to bet that Murray only gave Propofol once the entire time he was there. Or at the very least, he didn't give it as many times as he was trying to say.
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:coffee:
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

bluetopez said:
MJ was very aware of healthy stuff for his body like the foods he ate and stuff like that according to interviews he did. So if he was cold and hot when he talk to nurse lee and asked for Propofol that wouldn't make sense! Since he would have known what Propofol does to ones body like the side effects! So him being aware of healthy stuff and all why would he even ask for it in the first place!?

This is so confusing! Cause if he knew why ask her for Propofol then and ask Murray to give it to him too later? Did he even know what Murray was given him then? WTF?! o_O Yea I know he needed sleep. But, put two and two together and it makes no sense!
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I do not believe and I doubt that Michael begged by propofol (He knew all the risks and that not would be the right thing to do!!!) to Lee (I do not trust this woman!) / Murray or any other doctor. He was not naive. -_- This story is a total mess. :sigh: I hope that the truth appears. > :timer:

And..........



AEG hired Doctor Conrad Murray. Katherine has every right to sue. God bless Michael and Katherine! Big love, Arnie about 1 hour ago via web
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http://twitter.com/awkmd


:fear:
 
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Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

P. R. was at the top of the list in Michael's mind after the horrible things the press had done to him all of his life, esp. in the last years. He was terribly fearful of them and at what they'd try to do to him if it became known he was in the hospital. He called the nurse because he trusted her not to go to the press. After she was unavailable there probably wasn't anyone else he felt he could trust to keep this out of the media, so that's when he decided to "tough it out" AFTER he had already tried the nurse. Remember, Michael instructed the security guard to call her. As far as the healthy foods, etc., yes he was conscious of eating right, etc. but that would never keep him from desperately seeking sleep aids because of the enormous stress he was under and his history of insomnia. Those two issues are completely independent of each other. Michael was very aware of what propofol was---he had taken it on and off for years during tours to put him to sleep when stressed. That's why he knew to ask for it---not only to nurse Lee but also to Dr. Etok (that we know of). What he may not have been aware of are all of the side effects of prolonged use, or even short term use in some cases. Yes, Dr. Death is not the most credible person on the planet but I doubt he would have listed all of the specific dates he administered the propofol if it wasn't true. He gave this information voluntarily to LAPD the first time they were finally able to interview him. All of these details are just horrific and make me sick to my stomach. NO ONE, BUT NO ONE stepped in to help Michael and it only stands to reason many knew what was going on. I only wish any of his brothers could have been with him during all of this---like living w/him full time. I don't think any of this would have happened. Hurray for the Jackson family to file this suit. I'm sure money is the least important thing to them at his point. They want to hold ALL persons accountable that are a part of this story and I support them 100%. They have a right to know every detail of every sordid person involved and all of us should stand behind them
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Ashtanga said:
I do not believe and I doubt that Michael begged by propofol (He knew all the risks and that not would be the right thing to do!!!) to Lee (I do not trust this woman!) / Murray or any other doctor. He was not naive. -_- This story is a total mess. :sigh: I hope that the truth appears. > :timer:

And..........





http://twitter.com/awkmd


:fear:
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Klein has no shame, does he?
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

bluetopez said:
MJ was very aware of healthy stuff for his body like the foods he ate and stuff like that according to interviews he did. So if he was cold and hot when he talk to nurse lee and asked for Propofol that wouldn't make sense! Since he would have known what Propofol does to ones body like the side effects! So him being aware of healthy stuff and all why would he even ask for it in the first place!?

This is so confusing! Cause if he knew why ask her for Propofol then and ask Murray to give it to him too later? Did he even know what Murray was given him then? WTF?! o_O Yea I know he needed sleep. But, put two and two together and it makes no sense!
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Nurse Lee also said she read MJ a list of the side effects of using propofol from her nursing book. But MJ believed if he was properly monitored he would be fine.

MJ had a history of using propofol, I've heard he used it during the History tour, so even though he was health conscious he wasn't above using drastic measures to get some sleep. Poor Michael!!
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

SandyFromHouston said:
P. R. was at the top of the list in Michael's mind after the horrible things the press had done to him all of his life, esp. in the last years. He was terribly fearful of them and at what they'd try to do to him if it became known he was in the hospital. . . NO ONE, BUT NO ONE stepped in to help Michael and it only stands to reason many knew what was going on. I only wish any of his brothers could have been with him during all of this---like living w/him full time. I don't think any of this would have happened. Hurray for the Jackson family to file this suit. I'm sure money is the least important thing to them at his point. They want to hold ALL persons accountable that are a part of this story and I support them 100%. They have a right to know every detail of every sordid person involved and all of us should stand behind them
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But, again, this has to be pointed out as contradictions to what else we know. Michael was so fearful about what the press would say if he went to the hospital (which he could have made up any excuse to tell the press) yet he wasn't fearful about what the press would say about him visiting Dr. Klein's office so frequently even as skin cancer rumors were swirling?

Also, why do people think that so many others would know about Michael's alleged constant use of propofol? Because they were family? Janet and others in the family stated they were shocked to find out about it. Because they worked with Michael? Those who planned the shows with him, sang with him, and danced with him didn'tgo home with him at night. What would have been the tip off that he would possibly be using such? Because fans has for years been following everything about Michael? Fans say they didn't know despite knowing of references to Michael having insomnia, having difficulty with his adrenaline being so high after performing that it was hard to go to sleep, talking to people in the middle of the night on the phone. The list goes on. Each group expected the other group to have known. Apparently nobody really did.

Finally, if the family was this aware that something was wrong with Michael and that things would have been different if they had been around, then I don't understand why no one was in the house with him then? As family, any excuse could have been made as a reason to be there for a few days and there were enough people to take shifts of visiting (not everyone at once for obvious interventions if he was so resistant to them). How about "Hey little or big brother, I want to visit with you and the children for awhile." Mr. or Mrs. Jackson could have done so also. L. Rowe could have done so since he claims that Michael had him working for him. They could have asked Michael's nephew Taj to make up a reason to stay around at night or more often as he has stated that he would work for Michael as an assistant when Michael needed something. Also, no one has yet said that they took the family gathering as an opportunity to intervene (despite things wouldn't have been right at that time if you look at these timelines); all that is ever talked about is what fun that event was. Michael is in this much trouble and yet you don't use it as an opportunity? For me, these are just more contradictions in behavior compared to what is being said.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

If you want justice Mrs Jackson stop helping Conrad Murray
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

I keep reading people say that Michael had a history of using propofol and I'm wondering if anyone can provide a source for where they got that information. TIA.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

xthunderx2 said:
Katherine on TMZ...it broke my heart..the pain she is feeling is terrible..

Katherine saying.."I want Justice"

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=dfb043c8-fa30-4419-a2a7-8ee3412b6397
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Aww how sad. I don't know how a mother losing one of their children could ever have peace. But maybe with justice for Michael there will be closure for her. I hope those who had a hand in this pay a huge price. Greed, especially when it's carried out in complete disregard for a human life, is never good.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Buttercup said:
I keep reading people say that Michael had a history of using propofol and I'm wondering if anyone can provide a source for where they got that information. TIA.
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When MJ passed CNN Dr Santay Gupta went to LA digging around. He found this doctor (think he was stripped of his medical license.) who claimed he administered propofol to MJ on the HISTORY tour. It's not concrete proof. Just telling you what's out there.
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

max000 said:
When MJ passed CNN Dr Santay Gupta went to LA digging around. He found this doctor (think he was stripped of his medical license.) who claimed he administered propofol to MJ on the HISTORY tour. It's not concrete proof. Just telling you what's out there.
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"Sources" told CNN Dr. Neil Ratner administered propofol to Michael during the History tour but of course, he did not comment when questioned by CNN. There's a video of him being questioned but I can't find it.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/07/03/jackson.diprivan/index.html?iref=storysearch
 
Re: Wrongful death lawsuits - Katherine and MJ's kids sue AEG / Murray responds to Joe's lawsuit

Thanks for replying max and suzy. There's so many claims and he-said/she-said's flying around — I'm trying to find out what we know the facts are (which seems to be little at this point). I'm hoping the trial will clear some things up, but even then... I'm praying the truth will get out there.
 
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