Discussion about Charges against Dr. Murray / all threads merged

[Dangerous Incorporated]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

This was posted on "TINI" from Brian Oxman. What do you think? He is asking people to contact the DA regarding the charges not being high enough:

From Brian Oxman (Jacksons's Defence Lawyer):
scooley@da.lacounty.gov and (213) 974-3512, and tell him the charges are not enough. This was reckless disregard of life and 2nd ......degree murder> Please, write to DA right now!

 

[hilliver]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

If I had a magic wand Murrey would be charged and convicted with 2nd degree murder, but as the 'implied malice' bit is not as easy to prove my concern would be that he would not be convicted on the basis of reasonable doubt, I do believe that he will be convicted of manslaughter, and I think the judge will pass a heavy sentence, he is well aware of public feeling and the level of wrecklessness by Murrey - for money will justify that. Also the medical board has expressed a view that sounds like they are looking to revoke his licence.

I believe if he is convicted the estate will go after him in a civil suit, and his earning power will be reduced, so his life - hopefully will change for the worse, he killed Michael out of greed but it is going to cost him. There is a fine line between justice and revenge and I want both.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

The propofol being in his eye's comes from the official autopsy report. Anyone want to take a guess a to how it got in his stomach? Was Michael drinking it? This is something that makes no sense at all.

This is normal for Propofol. Sorry, but it makes perfect sense.

 

[RockWithMichael4eva]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Isn't it a case that the jury could find him not guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter?

Yup, Either which way with Involuntary Manslaughter, He still can walk free, so what does they really have to lose from charging murder charges???? NOTHING!

 

[twinklEE]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Many people from poorer backgrounds have to struggle to put themselves through school and work to pay school fees. Dr Murray is from a THIRD WORLD country and from a WORKING CLASS Background. He was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth, so with some knowledge how how hard people from poorer backgrounds have to struggle to get a decent education, you could also calculate why it took him so long to get his first degree.
not everybody have the same opportunity.l

Oh please, I know many students coming from working class families, and being poor, the reason why his career started so late is b/c he changed his profession. FYI Murray's own father is a doctor.

 

[RockWithMichael4eva]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

That may or may not happen. However, I would rather have that happen and have him actually CONVICTED, than to have him charged with murder 2 and acquitted so that he will have the right proclaim himself innocent of any wrongdoing whatsoever. And, of course, once acquitted, he can never be charged again and he can write and sell any book he wants to telling HIS side of the story. Much better to have him convicted, even if it is the lesser charge that can definitely be proven.

Really? Convicting Murray on Involuntary Manslaughter Charges is like Convicting Him on a Mistermeanor Charge......

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

This was posted on "TINI" from Brian Oxman. What do you think? He is asking people to contact the DA regarding the charges not being high enough:

What do I think? I think it is not even Brian Oxman behind this. I think it is a group of fans who, for whatever reason, are a little out of touch with what really happened to Michael.

Folks, there are some hard cold facts that most fans don't want to face and keep denying up, down and sideways and each time I point them out I get clobbered on the head for even daring to go there but the facts are the facts.

The DA is trained in this field. T Mez is trained in this field and has proven he has some clue what he is doing.

There are too many fans out there who keep screaming 'justice'. What exactly is this justice you seek? Many fans speak from two sides of their mouth and change their story to suit the thread. You can't claim Michael was drugged all the time and thats why he signed this or that contract, or he didn't know about the will because he was kept dumb.......and then go and claim he was brilliant and a financial genius. He signs a contract that states one thing and then believes something entirely different? Those two don't add up.

You can't run around saying there was this huge network of people or even a 'few' who were out for his money and murdered him and then go and blame ONE MAN for it.

THEN there is what the jury will see.

This financially in trouble doctor working for little or no money in Houston to provide for poor and sick people who have limited resources doing good in the community who is given the opportunity of a lifetime. (Also known as dangling a golden carrot in front of someones face). Then you have this demanding superstar who is asking for this particular drug and this is ripe for the defense team.

By the time everything comes out in court, the jury is going to see a side of Michael Jackson and a side of Conrad Murray that has been painted by both sides. Prosecution and defense.

Now, if you are to believe the part about Michael being controlled, this is even worse for the prosecution because the defense is going to say that clearly Michael was not in his right mind half the time and this 'poor doctor' came along at the wrong time. There are plenty of people out there who claim he WAS drugged and didn't know what was going on in his life. You put those fans on the stand and Murray will look like a patsy and Michael will look like he was out of control. There are plenty of people on record saying he was seeking out this drug and offering to pay big bucks for it.

No jury is going to convict a doctor with no record of wrongdoing who was clearly in financial trouble and felt pressured into doing this.

This is what your jury will see. People who are on Michaels side should be sticking with the fact that he clearly had no drugs in his system, he was on top of the world and ready to do this great come back and was on top of his game. Then someone came along and ruined it.

That would be the conviction. Not the smoke and mirrors.

 

[Cris123]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

What do I think? I think it is not even Brian Oxman behind this. I think it is a group of fans who, for whatever reason, are a little out of touch with what really happened to Michael.

Folks, there are some hard cold facts that most fans don't want to face and keep denying up, down and sideways and each time I point them out I get clobbered on the head for even daring to go there but the facts are the facts.

The DA is trained in this field. T Mez is trained in this field and has proven he has some clue what he is doing.

There are too many fans out there who keep screaming 'justice'. What exactly is this justice you seek? Many fans speak from two sides of their mouth and change their story to suit the thread. You can't claim Michael was drugged all the time and thats why he signed this or that contract, or he didn't know about the will because he was kept dumb.......and then go and claim he was brilliant and a financial genius. He signs a contract that states one thing and then believes something entirely different? Those two don't add up.

You can't run around saying there was this huge network of people or even a 'few' who were out for his money and murdered him and then go and blame ONE MAN for it.

THEN there is what the jury will see.

This financially in trouble doctor working for little or no money in Houston to provide for poor and sick people who have limited resources doing good in the community who is given the opportunity of a lifetime. (Also known as dangling a golden carrot in front of someones face). Then you have this demanding superstar who is asking for this particular drug and this is ripe for the defense team.

By the time everything comes out in court, the jury is going to see a side of Michael Jackson and a side of Conrad Murray that has been painted by both sides. Prosecution and defense.

Now, if you are to believe the part about Michael being controlled, this is even worse for the prosecution because the defense is going to say that clearly Michael was not in his right mind half the time and this 'poor doctor' came along at the wrong time. There are plenty of people out there who claim he WAS drugged and didn't know what was going on in his life. You put those fans on the stand and Murray will look like a patsy and Michael will look like he was out of control. There are plenty of people on record saying he was seeking out this drug and offering to pay big bucks for it.

No jury is going to convict a doctor with no record of wrongdoing who was clearly in financial trouble and felt pressured into doing this.

This is what your jury will see. People who are on Michaels side should be sticking with the fact that he clearly had no drugs in his system, he was on top of the world and ready to do this great come back and was on top of his game. Then someone came along and ruined it.

That would be the conviction. Not the smoke and mirrors.

Beachlover, you have to stop accusing the fans without any evidence or fact. Now. Fans, especially those you are accusing repeatedly, namely fans who came into contact with Michael over the years, are honest and that's why Michael loved them. I'll repeat this as long as you try to bash them. OK?

Second, yes, it is possible for fans to say Michael was not feeling well, was on drugs especially coming out of Klein's, and still be great, loving, enduring, a genius, etc Because that's the truth. That's why we loved him, because he was human, yet a human with God given talent and personality

 

[eStyle]

Re: Is there a possability Dr. Murray will be convicted to more than four years in jail?

well, see, that's the thing - he's supposed to be broke. i believe someone paid the bail for him.

it also looks to me like the DA barely scraped enough evidence to charge him with IM, but i hope i'm dead wrong on this.

Who knows what might have happened there...
Strange, strange...

well the bail was actually 3x more than it should have been or what is reccomended for such a crime so that was something.

The whole thing here is really crazy...

 

[Beachlover]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Beachlover, you have to stop accusing the fans without any evidence or fact. Now. Fans, especially those you are accusing repeatedly, namely fans who came into contact with Michael over the years, are honest and that's why Michael loved them. I'll repeat this as long as you try to bash them. OK?

Second, yes, it is possible for fans to say Michael was not feeling well, was on drugs especially coming out of Klein's, and still be great, loving, enduring, a genius, etc Because that's the truth. That's why we loved him, because he was human, yet a human with God given talent and personality

I don't want to fight with you but I am going to tell you since you did not read my post clearly that I clearly stated it was my opinion which I am entitled to and I will stick to it until someone comes up with proof that Michael was being controlled by drugs.

Again,you mention Kleins office and I have to ask you....what do you think he was doing in a dermatology office where he was receiving plastic surgery and injections? Do you think Klein should have injected him without using any kind of sedation or pain killer?

I did not 'bash' anyone. I called it exactly as I see it. My issue with them is exactly as stated in my post. I see it as more harm than good right now.

 

[Datsymay]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Oh please, I know many students coming from working class families, and being poor, the reason why his career started so late is b/c he changed his profession. FYI Murray's own father is a doctor.

Since you already knew the answer, why were you making it a subject for discussion? it has nothing to do with the topic on hand. Anyone can change their career if the want to.And stop trying to fight with me, I am tired of it.

 

[Moulin Rouge]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

If I had a magic wand Murrey would be charged and convicted with 2nd degree murder, but as the 'implied malice' bit is not as easy to prove my concern would be that he would not be convicted on the basis of reasonable doubt, I do believe that he will be convicted of manslaughter, and I think the judge will pass a heavy sentence, he is well aware of public feeling and the level of wrecklessness by Murrey - for money will justify that. Also the medical board has expressed a view that sounds like they are looking to revoke his licence.

I believe if he is convicted the estate will go after him in a civil suit, and his earning power will be reduced, so his life - hopefully will change for the worse, he killed Michael out of greed but it is going to cost him. There is a fine line between justice and revenge and I want both.

if i had magic michael would still be alive.

 

[Moulin Rouge]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I'm not talking about 1983-1995. I know that this is pretty common. But why did he get his bachelor's degree at 30 only? I'm 18 and will be done with my B.sc when I'm around 21/22.

Not every decides to go to college right after high school or secondary school. Things happen but why is this important?

 

[Mechi]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

To me it's like this... I can generally not understand that Docs get this free pass... this is to me like building a bridge with the not correct material...

There are things you have studied and you can not just forget about them... not for money... not for any other reason. That's not how you want responsible adults in important positions to deal with yourself right?

So yes sure I want Murray to be punished and yes hard as I personally think from reading the search warrants and also the autopsy report that he is not giving the true and complete picture. He's not sorry. It's more than blatant in everybodys face he is still going for covering up his poor hopefully soon to be in jail ass.

I don't care if he had the intention to kill Michael or if he panicked and all that.
There is the fact, that he had the fair chance to say no with a very clear and peaceful mind but he decided for the money.
He used propofol on a helpless patient with not the proper monitoring tools and STILL (knowing that) he left this helpless patient alone.
And now he says 'not guilty' to the lowest charges possible.

Murray took a loving father away from his three beautiful children. There is no real justice for that possible to me... whatever can be done it will all not bring Michael back to his children.

Murray deserves to be punished harsh!

But that doesn't cloud my mind this much that I can't see that the evidence is not enough to really PROVE a murder case.
Doctors are the best assasins for a very sad reason!
I want this doc in jail... and I say better for some time than for no time.
And I pray for some Michael Jackson fans in that jail... but well... but most gives me comfort that justice is out there anyways and will get Murrays ass with no chance to hide. And most faith I honestly anyways have in that eternal justice system it works.

Also let me add... a lawyer asking fans in this to help... should might study his job again. Publicity might works a certain way... but on the table of justice in court counts evidence first and still thankfully most. So a lawyer needs to do his homework better.

 

[CatherineNZ]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Sorry i have no respect for Oxman since 2005. T Mez fired him at the time - that's enough.

 

[twinklEE]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Not every decides to go to college right after high school or secondary school. Things happen but why is this important?

Who claimed it was important, it just caught my attention why does the point out bother you so much?

 

[esther1972]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I admire everybody that is asking for higher charges i really do but please you all must realize that without the DA being able to put the smoking gun in Murray's hand there is no way that that it's gonna happen. The question you should all ask yourself is this...do you want a conviction with proof or do you want him to walk. Because at this point without the smoking gun and pressing higher charges he will walk...

I know people who read the coronor's report all say the evidence is pointing towards murder..and that is true..but it's nut enough to put on murder charges because they can't put the smoking gun in his hands YET...

So at this point i rather have they can find him guilty on a charge that they can proof than that this man will walk because of a charge they can't proof...

As for Oxman....if he really want's justice for michael than he has to stop calling him an addict and apologize for calling Michael an addict in public first.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Again,you mention Kleins office and I have to ask you....what do you think he was doing in a dermatology office where he was receiving plastic surgery and injections? Do you think Klein should have injected him without using any kind of sedation or pain killer?

this i have to agree with. its a very bizarre thing to accuse mj of being on drugs all the time and being controlled and using mj coming out of kliens office as evidence of that. like the poster says. what do u expect him to be like when hes having procedures done. thats like me going to the dentist and being put under then leaving and looking groggy and suddenly that means im on drugs all the time. hardly logical. and something the likes of lieberman would come up with.

There is the fact, that he had the fair chance to say no with a very clear and peaceful mind but he decided for the money.

tbh thats not even the issue. its about him not having the right equipment.not knowing how to give the drug and not monitoring him. if he had done all that correctly mj would be here. thats the basis of the charge

 

[ensleyave]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

What I am hoping is the DA and the Jury will try to make an example out of this doc, because there is a problem with these kind of doctors especially in Hollywood. Sometimes when this happen the jury will go against what happens all the time a shock the world.

 

[Mechi]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

tbh thats not even the issue.

I know it's not... half hollywood couldn't be drugged if they'd have the courage to make it an issue which it to me personally is. But ok docs must decide what they want to be known for. If they don't take it too seriously with their oath then they will be known for that.

its about him not having the right equipment.

yes agree.

not knowing how to give the drug

that he didn't know is speculation. It's 50% he knew and 50% he didn't knew. The only fact to me is that he gave it as he said.

and not monitoring him.

agree again.

f he had done all that correctly mj would be here. thats the basis of the charge

agree again.


I tried to point out why to me he would deserve a stronger charge. However I admitted that the points I gave would be hard to prove.

 

[kasume]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I dont care whether you like Oxman or not. If you liked Michael Jackson, do what you can to help get higher charges placed on Murray.

I agree. Aim for the TRUTH.

Sometimes, it's like some fans have no faith.

KEEP THE FAITH.

I don't care if Oxman is wrong and keeps calling Michael a drug addict during the last months of his life. At least Oxman is on to the most important truth of them all, MICHAEL WAS MURDERED.

And I believe the fact HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY ASK FOR THAT PROPOFOL will come out if we investigate more and do everything right and charge this man with murder, and go through a trial.

Sometimes, you can't always take the easy way. God tests our faith in strange ways.

Whether we like it or not, Brian Oxman, Joe Jackson and LaToya happen to be the ones saying the TRUTH, MURDER. We all should be on the same page here, whether they're our favorite people or not.

Like I said before, I think that message at Michael's memorial REALLY was MEANT to be there by Michael himself. "There's nothing that can't be done, if we raise our voice as one." And I will do that along with Brian and Joe..and whoever else wants the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH.

 

[RockWithMichael4eva]

Re: If/After Murray is charged, then what happens?

I hope theres cameras in the courtroom ; BTW I meant to ask this before- you think Paris and Prince will be going to the trial??

Me too.

 

[Carol]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I'm worried that if the charge is harsher then he might walk free.

...............I understand what you mean but I very strongly disagree with 4 years
And I will let my disagreement show in a' polite manner to the D.A as floows:

Hello,

In my opinion the charges brought is not enough.
4 years jail,in comparison what happend to Mr Jackson wich you are known with,and has left his family,Children friends and friends in deep grieving and pain.
I'm a' devoted fan of Mr Jackson and again ask you kindly to have a' second look on the charges brought.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I agree. Aim for the TRUTH.

Sometimes, it's like some fans have no faith.

KEEP THE FAITH.

I don't care if Oxman is wrong and keeps calling Michael a drug addict during the last months of his life. At least Oxman is on to the most important truth of them all, MICHAEL WAS MURDERED.

And I believe the fact HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY ASK FOR THAT PROPOFOL will come out if we investigate more and do everything right and charge this man with murder, and go through a trial.

Sometimes, you can't always take the easy way. God tests our faith in strange ways.

Whether we like it or not, Brian Oxman, Joe Jackson and LaToya happen to be the ones saying the TRUTH, MURDER. We all should be on the same page here, whether they're our favorite people or not.

Like I said before, I think that message at Michael's memorial REALLY was MEANT to be there by Michael himself. "There's nothing that can't be done, if we raise our voice as one." And I will do that along with Brian and Joe..and whoever else wants the TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH.

all they care about is suing someone who could afford to pay a lawsuit , if they cared about MJ they would not have called him a drug addict just to blame him for keeping a distance from them . the day his family admit all they cared about was how they were going to get his signature on a deal or a tour , or how they were going to force him not to pursue legal action against people that stole from him then I'll begin to believe they want justice .

Murray and no one but Murray killed MJ , Murray had known him for three years , MJ asked Abrams, , Lee and Metzeger for propofol . These people had nothing to do with AEG . Metzeger was MJ's doctor for years , Abrams knew MJ before AEG .

Propofol did not come out of no where , and MJ took it way before AEG surfaced , stop with these conspiracy theories . AEG were desperate to kick Murray out , they did not like him , and they did not agree to pay him anything , they did not sign his contract , he was making MJ's insomnia problem worse , so MJ would put more pressure on AEG . the lack of signatures on his contract is an evidence ALL parties ( MJ & AEG ) were having a second thought on hiring Murray during the tour . You will soon hear that MJ FINALLY got it and he was not taking him to London , and he LISTENED to AEG people .

 

[ensleyave]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

^^^
As you know Sound I post in the I. U. I don't believe in one particular theory I am looking at all avenues and all aspects of what happened. Hopefully, with all of our different ideas we will all come to the same conclusion. It will take all of ideas and oppositions and theories to come up with what really happened. You must admit what Murray did could have been a bonified accident but everything surrounding it makes no since. So, eventhough you are in disagreement with a conspiracy it still may pull out some answers you may yourself have questions to. I just hope everyone can work together to find justice for Michael.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

people should alwasy keep in mind that MJ did call Lee five days before he passed away and wanted her to come and see what was wrong with him , that was the first indication MJ was no longer 'fond' of Murray , the second indication was the lack of signatures on his contract , if MJ was so desperate he would not have waited two damn months to sign his contract and the thrid indication , all the drugs he was prescribing to MJ were a huge potential problem and if that was his way of treating MJ's insomnia then MJ would have been addicted pretty soon to benzos and Murray would have got his contract signed very soon .


Also don't forget Murray was there from the very beginning yet MJ was ASKING OTHERS to do it , obviously he was not so sure Murray could do it and unfortunetly he was right .

 

[ensleyave]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

^^^
I believe he didn't want Murray anymore also. Why would you call a nurse practitioner when you have a doctor? In my opinion, I don't think Murray was going to London with him. If you wanted this doctor so badly the contract would have been signed long ago.

 

[Sophielo]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

^^^
I believe he didn't want Murray anymore also. Why would you call a nurse practitioner when you have a doctor? In my opinion, I don't think Murray was going to London with him. If you wanted this doctor so badly the contract would have been signed long ago.

Its odd why a contract never signed. Kai Chase mentioned that when she was re-hired in May she had to hand in all her paperwork so her UK work visa could be sorted out. If Murray was going to London his contract would have been signed and his work visa would have been issued by then.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Its odd why a contract never signed. Kai Chase mentioned that when she was re-hired in May she had to hand in all her paperwork so her UK work visa could be sorted out. If Murray was going to London his contract would have been signed and his work visa would have been issued by then.

Thank you very much , that's what I'm talking about , Murray was not going to London with MJ , and he was in desperate need of that job and he was doing everything so MJ would believe his services were needed , and the only way his services would have been needed if MJ was not able to sleep , and he was making sure MJ slept less and less everynight . Again there was a reason why MJ called Lee and not Murray .

 

[ensleyave]

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

^^^
very good point because the stuff he was giving him was not helping him it was doing the opposite of what it and Murray was suppose to do.


I wonder if there is an application for Murrays work visa. HMMM