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Discussion about Charges against Dr. Murray / all threads merged

Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Soundmind said:
Thank you very much , that's what I'm talking about , Murray was not going to London with MJ , and he was in desperate need of that job and he was doing everything so MJ would believe his services were needed , and the only way his services would have been needed if MJ was not able to sleep , and he was making sure MJ slept less and less everynight . Again there was a reason why MJ called Lee and not Murray .
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I hope this is something that is addressed during the trial as well. I do wonder if Murray was in the room that day when Lee was called. We know one of the security guards called Lee so I'm curious to know what the guard has to say about this particular day and what was going on.

As for this thread....I agree with everyone who's following Mez's advice. It's not a pretty pill, but we have to accept it. And tampering with the justice system in this way can backfire. I remember fans trying to do the same when Michael was on trial. It's a very risky game as you can positively influence some ppl and you can also piss them off.

And Oxman's efforts are empty becuz he's shooting himself in the foot everytime he talks about MJ being drugged out of his head. He's throwing the baby out with the bathwater...cutting off his nose to spite his face? If he wants to help MJ get justice, he needs to put a SOCK IN IT becuz obviously what he's talking about has nothing to do with what caused Michael's death. Did he even read the autopsy report? For every good he tries to do he negates it everytime he opens his mouth about drugs. It's like putting salve mixed with salt on a wound. Yeah, that'll help.

Translation: He's not really helping the situation. ANYONE who goes the route of MJ being controlled by drugs isn't helping the situation, IMO. Just my opinion. I respect others may differ. :agree:

Peace.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Soundmind said:
Thank you very much , that's what I'm talking about , Murray was not going to London with MJ , and he was in desperate need of that job and he was doing everything so MJ would believe his services were needed , and the only way his services would have been needed if MJ was not able to sleep , and he was making sure MJ slept less and less everynight . Again there was a reason why MJ called Lee and not Murray .
Click to expand...

I am giving this consideration but what stops me from believing this is the fact that he gave Michael pills, and not just IV medications which would allow MJ to be more independent. Also, I can not understand if MJ felt there was some problem why he would allow him to continue to set up and IV and give such a dangerous drug.

Also, I'm not sure why he would make sure MJ slept less and less each night if he wanted the job. Wouldn't it make more sense to do a great job and give the Propofol? Just not following how doing a bad job is going to ensure him getting anything signed from a logical point of view.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

wendy2004 said:
As for this thread....I agree with everyone who's following Mez's advice. It's not a pretty pill, but we have to accept it. And tampering with the justice system in this way can backfire. I remember fans trying to do the same when Michael was on trial. It's a very risky game as you can positively influence some ppl and you can also piss them off.

And Oxman's efforts are empty becuz he's shooting himself in the foot everytime he talks about MJ being drugged out of his head.

Translation: He's not really helping the situation. ANYONE who goes the route of MJ being controlled by drugs isn't helping the situation, IMO. Just my opinion. I respect others may differ. :agree:

Peace.
Click to expand...

I agree with what you said.

I'm not gonna trust this person...if Bashir starts his own campaign to suddenly defend M,what are we suppesed to do?where do you draw the line?
Many of those commenting in that facebook page run by his pp(?),have no clue who this person is,they just see him preaching about justice and they automatically add him in the good guys list....he's nothing but a publicity stunt gone wrong.
When the cameras won't be around anymore all these last minute justice heroes will disappear and go back doing what they do best...talking shit.
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Dr. Conrad Murray Voicemail Leaked: New Evidence In Michael Jackson Case

A new audio clip has been leaked online that shows Dr. Conrad Murray left an answerphone message to one of his patients around the same time he was supposed to be performing CPR on Michael Jackson before his confirmed death.
The recording, which will be used by both the defense and the prosecution in the case shows that Dr. Murray sounds calm and collective while telling patient Bob Russell about a heart scan.
The 18-second answerphone message took place at 11:54am, the same time that Los Angeles police claim Murray was performing frantic CPR on the King of Pop in his bedroom after taking the deadly intake of the drug Propofol.
Murray apparently told police that he started resuscitation at around 10:52am, and did so for over an hour. But the new evidence aims to discredit the Los Angeles police reports, stating that he started the CPR at the suggested time.
A source who are close to the Murray defense team said that “It’s clear from the voicemail that Murray is not a man who sounds frantic, worried or in a stressful position.”… “But if the police’s timeline is correct, then he would have been almost an hour into giving Jackson CPR.”
Ed Chernoff, Murray’s lawyer hopes that the new evidence will discredit cops interviews with the Doctor, proving that every interview was a lie, and that they aimed to bungle the enquiry.

I don't understand that bit.. Murray's lawyer hopes this new information will prove every interview with cops was a lie ...? That doesn't make sense to me that Murray's lawyer would want to prove that what Murray said was a lie. Am I being stupid..Can someone explain?
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

ok so yeah...I am about as confused as you are...why would he think that this audiotape would help his defense??.....Murray has just told one lie on top of another.
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

the only way it helps the defense is as that article says it shows he wasnt stressed so either nothing had happened at that point or he was covering it up. problem for murray is it shows he was sat on the phone for around an hour talking to ppl when he was supposed to be monitoring his paitent. so either way the tape still incriminates murray. and if its correct that mj died almost straight away after being injected hows murray gonna answer that? change his timeline yet again no doubt?
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Rockin. said:
Dr. Conrad Murray Voicemail Leaked: New Evidence In Michael Jackson Case

A new audio clip has been leaked online that shows Dr. Conrad Murray left an answerphone message to one of his patients around the same time he was supposed to be performing CPR on Michael Jackson before his confirmed death.
The recording, which will be used by both the defense and the prosecution in the case shows that Dr. Murray sounds calm and collective while telling patient Bob Russell about a heart scan.
The 18-second answerphone message took place at 11:54am, the same time that Los Angeles police claim Murray was performing frantic CPR on the King of Pop in his bedroom after taking the deadly intake of the drug Propofol.
Murray apparently told police that he started resuscitation at around 10:52am, and did so for over an hour. But the new evidence aims to discredit the Los Angeles police reports, stating that he started the CPR at the suggested time.
A source who are close to the Murray defense team said that “It’s clear from the voicemail that Murray is not a man who sounds frantic, worried or in a stressful position.”… “But if the police’s timeline is correct, then he would have been almost an hour into giving Jackson CPR.”
Ed Chernoff, Murray’s lawyer hopes that the new evidence will discredit cops interviews with the Doctor, proving that every interview was a lie, and that they aimed to bungle the enquiry.

I don't understand that bit.. Murray's lawyer hopes this new information will prove every interview with cops was a lie ...? That doesn't make sense to me that Murray's lawyer would want to prove that what Murray said was a lie. Am I being stupid..Can someone explain?
Click to expand...

chernoffs that stupid to imply that the interview never took place and the police made it all up. the police better have this on tape or at least a written interview signed by murray
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Off topic posts deleted, please take it to PM.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Thanks for the link.
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Jerknoff wants to pass the the 11:00 am statement as

a mistake the police made and not as something Murray

said. Just because he appears to be calm, it doesn't necessarily

mean that he was. He is not going to call a patient and say,

' Hey...I have MJ dead here, and I'm making this call to cover

my butt about the timeline, and I've turned on the heat too!'
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

The defense will try to use the voicemail to say that the police lied about the timings but hopefully it has been taped or a sworn statement by Murray. Even if this timeline is correct it still means that Murray buggered off out of the room for over an hour to make phone calls when he should have been monitoring a patient. And there would still be a delay in calling 911 as the call was not placed until 12.21. The defense want to try and confuse the jury.
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Who has released the voicemail? :smilerolleyes:

Then you can figure out what should be achieved.



I hope, in that case, there were several witnesses (and evtl. tapes) in that room where this person makes his testimonies.
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

DELETED (sorry wrong thread)
 
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Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Beachlover said:
TMZ from AUG 24, 2009

Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyer, Ed Chernoff, just released the following statement regarding the affidavit we published today, in which authorities recount Dr. Murray's blow-by-blow account of the day Michael Jackson died:

"Much of what was in the search warrant affidavit is factual. However, unfortunately, much is police theory. Most egregiously, the timeline reported by law enforcement was not obtained through interviews with Dr. Murray, as was implied by the affidavit. Dr. Murray simply never told investigators that he found Michael Jackson at 11:00 am not breathing.

He also never said that he waited a mere ten minutes before leaving to make several phone calls. In fact, Dr. Murray never said that he left Michael Jackson's room to make phone calls at all."

There has been some issue with the time line all along, and nothing surprising here.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/21/sbt.01.html
Click to expand...

The problem with this is that here ^^ Murray's lawyer claims it was the police who got the timeline wrong. Now his other attorney is saying MURRAY made a mistake about the timeline. And the red bolded part....even if Murray never told police he left MJ's room, we know he did. How? Murray's own lawyer, Chernoff, was on television saying how Murray "fortuitously" entered Michael's room and found him not breathing. In case Chernoff forgot, one has to be OUT of the room in order to "fortuitously" ENTER it. So whether Murray said it to police or not may not be the issue. His own attorney spoke for him on national tv and said he was out of the room. And the only reason anyone found out he made calls that morning was becuz his phone records were subpoenaed. Funny how Murray left that info out while he was recounting what happened that morning to police. And I'm almost certain if they asked him what happened that morning they meant EVERY move he made, not just what was related to Michael. And the last thing, surely if he was IN the room while he was making those calls, he would have been aware of MJ's state and able to administer flumanezil (not sure I'm spelling that right at the mo) when it would have been effective. Based on the tox, there was no flumanezil in MJ's system...which indicates Murray either didn't give it or was wayyyy too late for it to even enter Michael's system.

So much is wrong with Murray's accounts. I've decided to totally discount everything he says now. It's all about the tox reports for me. Even his laywer, Chernoff, doesn't seem to be sure what the true facts are. That says a whole lot right there, imo. blah
 
Re: If/When Murray is charged, what happens next?

Ok I get it now thank you :)
 
Felony Murder?

I know the law probably doesn't work this way, but what if they make a law that administering these types of medications with or with out an anesthesiologist, outside a hospital setting is a felony. Then would they be able to charge Murray with Felony Murder?

I'm just thinking outside the box here. I don't know if it was intentional on Murray's end or not, but it does seem extremely convenient that there are all these loop holes in the laws since he is a doctor, like it not being against the law for him to have the propofol, or administer it... just seems a little too convenient.

Either way, I think in light of Michael's death they need to make some new laws, because nothing good can come from people using these meds outside of a hospital.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Ejacobs29 said:
This is a political Move by DA Cooley. He has thrown in his hat for California AG..please don't believe the hype people. Murray left Micheal dead for hours before he called 911,he had so much propofol in his system it was in his eye's, he lied to police, EMT's and Doctors at UCLA. He made phone call's while MJ was dead. Please people see it for what it is..this DA cares only about his career and doesn't care if There is Justice for Michael.
Click to expand...

:agree:
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Soundmind said:
people should alwasy keep in mind that MJ did call Lee five days before he passed away and wanted her to come and see what was wrong with him , that was the first indication MJ was no longer 'fond' of Murray , the second indication was the lack of signatures on his contract , if MJ was so desperate he would not have waited two damn months to sign his contract and the thrid indication , all the drugs he was prescribing to MJ were a huge potential problem and if that was his way of treating MJ's insomnia then MJ would have been addicted pretty soon to benzos and Murray would have got his contract signed very soon .


Also don't forget Murray was there from the very beginning yet MJ was ASKING OTHERS to do it , obviously he was not so sure Murray could do it and unfortunetly he was right .
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I agree.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Beachlover said:
I am giving this consideration but what stops me from believing this is the fact that he gave Michael pills, and not just IV medications which would allow MJ to be more independent. Also, I can not understand if MJ felt there was some problem why he would allow him to continue to set up and IV and give such a dangerous drug.

Also, I'm not sure why he would make sure MJ slept less and less each night if he wanted the job. Wouldn't it make more sense to do a great job and give the Propofol? Just not following how doing a bad job is going to ensure him getting anything signed from a logical point of view.
Click to expand...



Well, to make Michael believe that he had problem, which would have kept him around. If what Soundmind and others are saying is true, then Murray was on the verge of being laid off because Michael wouldn't have needed him. With Murray's legal issues with the CPS', he couldn't risk losing that job because he needed the money, so what did he do? Possibly add other drugs to his drinks or foods, or even lie to Michael about what meds he was using on Michael (I've had this done to me before, and a unsuspecting person would have no idea). Which would then give Michael a insomnia effect, by then Michael would believe that he has a problem and needs help, he then looks into the Propofol after reportedly using it during the History tour, and knowing how it works. Which would then keep Murray employed, quite a simple and logical plan if you really think about it.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Dangerous Incorporated said:
This was posted on "TINI" from Brian Oxman. What do you think? He is asking people to contact the DA regarding the charges not being high enough:

From Brian Oxman (Jacksons's Defence Lawyer):
scooley@da.lacounty.gov and (213) 974-3512, and tell him the charges are not enough. This was reckless disregard of life and 2nd ......degree murder> Please, write to DA right now!
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I hope we do keep spreading the word about contacting the DA. I think its incredibly important as there are people, Hodgman is one, now apparently off the case but I am sure there are other prejudiced prosecutors. I was researching something & came across this from Vanity Fair. This gives me a very bad feeling. Hodgman is quoted, but another member of the prosecution team is an unnamed source:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/po...jackson-is-gone-but-the-sad-facts-remain.html

By Mauren Orth | Vanity Fair | April 2003
 
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Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

one word diane dimond.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

vanity fair. was murreen orths festering ground. im sure she loved having this peice in the mag. yeah dimond and posner. (posner has since been sacked shame) hes the one whos been defending murray from the begining and blaming mj
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

wendy2004 said:
(...) For every good he tries to do he negates it everytime he opens his mouth about drugs. It's like putting salve mixed with salt on a wound. Yeah, that'll help.

Translation: He's not really helping the situation. ANYONE who goes the route of MJ being controlled by drugs isn't helping the situation, IMO. (...)
Click to expand...

I don't know much about Oxman... Could someone please give me a link or something where he talked about Michael being controlled by drugs?!

Just would like to make me a picture of this man and his statements.

Thanx!
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

for some reason Brian Oxman want Murray to not be convicted
there is no way a Jury will convict Murray of 2nd degree Murder
while there is enough evidence to probably charge Murray with that
Crime _ there is not enough evidence or facts for a Jury to convict
ALl 12 members will not agree to convict and Murray will be set free

A Manslughter charge will be mor4e likely to get a conviction form thr
Jury and that swhat the DA wants Conviction for killing MJ and I assume
that waht we want _ murray to be convicted _ NOT walk free and proven
NOT guilty .. I dont really care about the time he serves I want the man to
be found guilty ..

Tom Mex who is much wiser than Oxman
also states that a 2nd dergree would be dangerous
andif they want to get a jury to convict Murray
Tom is an aexceelent attorney who Fired OXman
for incompitence during MJ's trial _ becuase Oxman
was being a media whore and not helping Mjs cause

He is not helping MJs cause here either
he is also being very un-professional in my opinion

I want a conviction GUILTY ... not Murray walking free as
NOT guilty which is sure to happen with a 2nd degree charge.
A Jury has to convict on the evidence allowed in court alone and
not popular opinion ... There are not enough FACTS to show 2nd degree
to a Jury _ lots of speculation which cant NOT be used as evidence in a
court of law
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Oxman is a Prat!
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Beachlover said:
I am giving this consideration but what stops me from believing this is the fact that he gave Michael pills, and not just IV medications which would allow MJ to be more independent. Also, I can not understand if MJ felt there was some problem why he would allow him to continue to set up and IV and give such a dangerous drug.

Also, I'm not sure why he would make sure MJ slept less and less each night if he wanted the job. Wouldn't it make more sense to do a great job and give the Propofol? Just not following how doing a bad job is going to ensure him getting anything signed from a logical point of view.
Click to expand...

I feel the same way. I think he would convince MJ to take him to London by helping him get to sleep...not the other way around.

If MJ used proposal during the History tour, he was already familiar with the drug. So, if he felt he needed to sleep during his last tour, why would he not try it again this time? Remember the anesthesiologist who went on tour with him? Dr Gupta from CNN tried to ask him why he went on tour with MJ...He refused to answer. I am 100% sure Murray's legal team will put him on the stand during the trial. No doubt about it.

The difference here is in 1995, MJ had money and could hire whoever he wanted...now he depended on AEG covering his expenses. I am sure if he had the financial means, he would have hired an anesthesiologist & a doctor. A cardiologist is easier to explain than an anesthesiologist, when you depend on third party approval to fund your expenses.
Reading now that he might have had second thought about Murray breaks my heart...and pisses me off.


clarac said:
I agree with what you said.

I'm not gonna trust this person...if Bashir starts his own campaign to suddenly defend M,what are we suppesed to do?where do you draw the line?
Many of those commenting in that facebook page run by his pp(?),have no clue who this person is,they just see him preaching about justice and they automatically add him in the good guys list....he's nothing but a publicity stunt gone wrong.
When the cameras won't be around anymore all these last minute justice heroes will disappear and go back doing what they do best...talking shit.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And he's been helping Murray's defines for a while now. Potential jurors keep hearing for Joe Jackson's attorney that MJ was an addict, who needed a fix. These jurors won't all have positive opinions about MJ....They will come into the courtroom with their own preconceived ideas based on what is being fed to them in the press.

qbee said:
for some reason Brian Oxman want Murray to not be convicted
there is no way a Jury will convict Murray of 2nd degree Murder
while there is enough evidence to probably charge Murray with that
Crime _ there is not enough evidence or facts for a Jury to convict
ALl 12 members will not agree to convict and Murray will be set free

A Manslughter charge will be mor4e likely to get a conviction form thr
Jury and that swhat the DA wants Conviction for killing MJ and I assume
that waht we want _ murray to be convicted _ NOT walk free and proven
NOT guilty .. I dont really care about the time he serves I want the man to
be found guilty ..

Tom Mex who is much wiser than Oxman
also states that a 2nd dergree would be dangerous
andif they want to get a jury to convict Murray
Tom is an aexceelent attorney who Fired OXman
for incompitence during MJ's trial _ becuase Oxman
was being a media whore and not helping Mjs cause

He is not helping MJs cause here either
he is also being very un-professional in my opinion

I want a conviction GUILTY ... not Murray walking free as
NOT guilty which is sure to happen with a 2nd degree charge.
A Jury has to convict on the evidence allowed in court alone and
not popular opinion ... There are not enough FACTS to show 2nd degree
to a Jury _ lots of speculation which cant NOT be used as evidence in a
court of law
Click to expand...

He was fired by Mez & MJ...as an incompetent lawyer. And just last week, disciplinary action was taken against him by the California Bar ass. and they ordered that he goes ETHICS school...go figure.

An unethical Oxman....should be an oxymoron.
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

Soundmind said:
Thank you very much , that's what I'm talking about , Murray was not going to London with MJ , and he was in desperate need of that job and he was doing everything so MJ would believe his services were needed , and the only way his services would have been needed if MJ was not able to sleep , and he was making sure MJ slept less and less everynight . Again there was a reason why MJ called Lee and not Murray .
Click to expand...

Is this your opinion that Murray was not going to London or is this fact? It is very odd that he did not have a signed contract after all that time, so it could be. Do you have a link? I would think Dileo or Phillips would have already stated this if it were true, though. A FF did say the meeting with the dr., Dileo, Phillips, MJ was June 19- read it in a thread.

Just want to clarify, thanks in advance.:)
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

amei0688 said:
I don't know much about Oxman... Could someone please give me a link or something where he talked about Michael being controlled by drugs?!

Just would like to make me a picture of this man and his statements.

Thanx!
Click to expand...
He's called Michael a drug addict SEVERAL times including the recent interview with Larry King and also mere moments after we found out Michael was gone
 
Re: Brian Oxman is asking for fans help and support to get charges against Murray changed.

I'd rather have him guilty on involuntary manslaughter than walk with nothing on murder 2. I'm gonna stick with T-Mez on this.

Even though the system's effed.
 
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